Look people, doomsayers have always existed in almost every historical era. In all of these instances, they have been warning that the times are "different" and the world is on its way to destruction. There were doomsayers when the 2nd Jewish temple was being savaged by the Romans, and there were doomsayers when Hitler was commiting geneocide in the 40's. Bad things happen people.
When we were (most not all) ignorant pre-teen's (<12 yrs old) and some teenagers (12-18) we don't bother to pick up a newspaper or watch the evening news to find out what's going on in our country, around the world, etc...Once we mature and begin to follow current events we soon realize how cruel the world is and then mistakingly think times have gotten worse because we have no reccolection of harmful events prior to our maturity.
Think about it, if you lived in: Jerusalem - When the Jewish temple was being obliterated Early Christian Churches - When Christianity was being martyred by Emperor Nero, Diocletian, etc. Any part of the middle east - When Islam was trouncing in killing anybody who stood in their way Europe - During the black plague which wiped out an estimated 75 million. Europes population is estimated to have dropped anywhere from 30%-60% (Bird flu parallel?) America - During any of the wars (Revolution, French, 1812, Civil, etc...) The World - During WWI or WWII + MANY MANY MORE
You would think the world was ending soon. Bad things happen.
But then you would say Natural Disasters like hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, etc. are on the rise, well I don't think that is true either.
Here is a heavily concatenated list of world disasters:
Earthquake in Syria 1138 ~ 230,000 people dead
Egypt and Syria, 1201 "The deadliest earthquake in history hit the eastern Mediterranean in July 1201. Approximately 1.1 million people were killed, mostly in Egypt and Syria. This makes it close to one of the ten worst natural disasters in recorded history."
Famine in Japan 1181 ~ 100,000 people dead
Flooding in the Netherlands 1228 ~ 100,000 dead
Flooding in the Netherlands again 1287 At least 50,000 dead
Earthquake in China 1290 atleast 100,000 people dead
Earthquake in China 1556 ~ 830,000 dead
The more recent disaster's in the news: Tsunami in indian coean in 2004 ~Between 235,000 and 285,000 deaths Recent cyclone in Myanmar ~ 100,000 dead Recent earthquake in China ~ 100,000 dead
Now imagine how long the first list would be if the ancient civilizations had the technology to communicate and store information as we do now...It's wrong to assume nothing else could have occured because only in the past 100 years or so, have natural disasters been recorded so scrupulously; whenever anything happens in the world, anything at all, we know. Think about it, we have sensors to pick up even the slightest rumble caused by an earthquake anywhere in the world. Ancient civilizations obviously didn't have these technologies and so I am sure quite a few were missed. And even for the events that were recorded, we are discovering new things about history every day; who knows what we haven't uncovered yet?
When looked at in aggregate, I feel that it's a bit foolish to say we are living in troubled times; because if you would have lived in any of the scenarios above you would have said the same thing...so in essence, what's the difference?
To finish with a quote from Severus, [quote author=Severus link=topic=6578.msg87574#msg87574 date=1210735542] Please, you sound like a charismatic Evangelical or something. We do not do the whole 'worry! worry! Do not worry about the present, worry about the future!' thing. We need to focus on practicing confession and communion, as well as praying the Hours.
I follow your points duck, but the end of the world will be much much more apocalyptic than all of those events put together: "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Matthew 24:22).... this will be a BIG one...
I never said anything in contradiction to that. All I was trying to show is that the "pre-cursors" we see today are no differernt than the "pre-cursors" which have happened over the course of history.
When taken in context, Christ is talking about the destruction of the temple. Verse 34 in that same chapter says, "34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place..."
When Christ said "this generation" he meant "this generation"...not 50, 100, 1000 generations. How it's stretched to the year 2008 or 2012 or 2056 is beyond me.
[quote author=duck link=topic=6578.msg87655#msg87655 date=1210798284] When Christ said "this generation" he meant "this generation"...not 50, 100, 1000 generations. How it's stretched to the year 2008 or 2012 or 2056 is beyond me.
As to that I have no clue - someone enlighten us please
[quote author=duck link=topic=6578.msg87655#msg87655 date=1210798284] I never said anything in contradiction to that. All I was trying to show is that the "pre-cursors" we see today are no differernt than the "pre-cursors" which have happened over the course of history.
When taken in context, Christ is talking about the destruction of the temple. Verse 34 in that same chapter says, "34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place..."
When Christ said "this generation" he meant "this generation"...not 50, 100, 1000 generations. How it's stretched to the year 2008 or 2012 or 2056 is beyond me.
Well, duck, the end of the world is not for us to determine, but rather, it is for us to know God's signs. We must always be ready, I agree, but now, we have been closer to the end than ever before, and lately there has been talks of the end of the world.
[quote author=josephgabriel link=topic=6578.msg87656#msg87656 date=1210798451] [quote author=duck link=topic=6578.msg87655#msg87655 date=1210798284] When Christ said "this generation" he meant "this generation"...not 50, 100, 1000 generations. How it's stretched to the year 2008 or 2012 or 2056 is beyond me.
As to that I have no clue - someone enlighten us please
pray for me
joe
Jesus didn't mean this generation, he meant mankind. He means that the End of Times will occur only after all is fulfilled. Jesus did not literally mean this generation, but rather, all mankind.
I have said before, and I shall say it again: When it comes, it comes. The bottom line is that we need to participate in church liturgically, confess our sins regularly, and perform the periods of fasting and prayers as set by the church. Whenever our Lord returns, he shall see our efforts if we have followed the above, and will award us accordingly.
Well aem581, when you say there has been talks about the end of the world - there always has and will be --- the key element in this topic is not to worry as Severus earlier said- it is to make sure we are more deeply engrossed in our Orthodox faith and readu to lay an account before God as it is written: "He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous[a] still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.” (Revelation 22:11).... and we shouldnt forget prayer...
[quote author=josephgabriel link=topic=6578.msg87660#msg87660 date=1210798737] Well aem581, when you say there has been talks about the end of the world - there always has and will be --- the key element in this topic is not to worry as Severus earlier said- it is to make sure we are more deeply engrossed in our Orthodox faith and readu to lay an account before God as it is written: "He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous[a] still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.” (Revelation 22:11).... and we shouldnt forget prayer...
pray for me
joe
joe, That isn't what I meant. I mean even at school, people come to me and talk about the End of the World being soon. These are just people from school, and so...this must be a sign. Even some atheists I had to prove that God existed, and then, they found that everything makes sense. That's why I think it is soon. I am not saying that the Church fasts have anything to do with this.
well..... i agree to a certain extent, but as to the sign thing.... you know how teenagers think and all of the fluctuations... it could be coincidence.. tomorrow it will be a different topic
[quote author=aem581 link=topic=6578.msg87658#msg87658 date=1210798685] Jesus didn't mean this generation, he meant mankind. He means that the End of Times will occur only after all is fulfilled. Jesus did not literally mean this generation, but rather, all mankind.
LOL, sorry I find that amusing :D
[quote author=aem581 link=topic=6578.msg87661#msg87661 date=1210798936] joe, That isn't what I meant. I mean even at school, people come to me and talk about the End of the World being soon. These are just people from school, and so...this must be a sign. Even some atheists I had to prove that God existed, and then, they found that everything makes sense. That's why I think it is soon. I am not saying that the Church fasts have anything to do with this.
So because people are talking about it, that means its soon. Well do some research and you will see that people have been talking about the end of the world for 2000 years (thats a little longer than 2 days...the difference between today and monday :D )
[quote author=duck link=topic=6578.msg87664#msg87664 date=1210799668] [quote author=aem581 link=topic=6578.msg87658#msg87658 date=1210798685] Jesus didn't mean this generation, he meant mankind. He means that the End of Times will occur only after all is fulfilled. Jesus did not literally mean this generation, but rather, all mankind.
LOL, sorry I find that amusing :D
[quote author=aem581 link=topic=6578.msg87661#msg87661 date=1210798936] joe, That isn't what I meant. I mean even at school, people come to me and talk about the End of the World being soon. These are just people from school, and so...this must be a sign. Even some atheists I had to prove that God existed, and then, they found that everything makes sense. That's why I think it is soon. I am not saying that the Church fasts have anything to do with this.
So because people are talking about it, that means its soon. Well do some research and you will see that people have been talking about the end of the world for 2000 years (thats a little longer than 2 days...the difference between today and monday :D )
Let me say, though, that roughly, all of those prophecies hae been fulfilled, and yes, I know people have talked about it for 2000 years, but still, it actually becomes more likely after every second passes. Every second is one second closer to the judgment (whenever it is). ;)
[quote author=Severus link=topic=6578.msg87667#msg87667 date=1210800765] aem, you keep mentioning all of these prophecies that have been filled. List all of those which fit that description.
No sourcing... Reuniting Israel with her homeland U.S. (I know the Bible doesn't mention the U.S., but metaphorically it does, because it mentions us as the eagle) will go into war with the Middle East War Corruption Famine People starting to believe in HIM There are many more but my Bible isn't in front of me...
The US i doubt is represented by the Eagle but is the "great city" that falls during these times, I can't remember if they called it Babel or something else
OK, whenever you get a chance, post all of the prophecies with sources and verses. I want to see why this is such an attention-grabbing topic, and why we would bother to let it grab a hold of our minds and distract us from the present.
I have read some SDA prophecy rubbish, and I hope that we do not follow the same tract. Let us discern the signs- but not try to pretend to know who is who, what is what, and how it is going to go in place.
Seventh-day adventists. They are premillenniumn-ists. I am open to some theology/hermeneutics from Catholics, Lutherans and Anglicans sometimes, but they are overtly Legalists-Judiazers (but so is some of our clergy). They are Zionists (and I see some element of that here), and they have very little sense of Mystery. It is bankrupt of integrity- and I say this without reservation, because I am just sickened by their portrayal of the orthodox faith. But then again, we must love them, and know that we have failed to witness them- for they hunger for Mysticism, and freedom and very well thought out hermeneutics. Let us be a light to them, humbling ourselves so that the glory of God can be manifest, and bring the sincere back to the Orthodox fold.
Could someone give me the links to the ressources who talk about all these signs.
I'm disappointed to know that Bush is not the Anti-Christ. He's definately tried his best at least at creating havoc.
But, i am more interested in the actual "GENERALISED" prophesies... let each person guess the details privately (names,places where these prophesies are being fulfilled otherwise its just speculation, and then we end up spreading rumours about someone for no reason. Like what if Britney Spears is not the Anti-Christ, and I've been going around telling people that she is!??)
I'm glad that u love this topic, and it shows WE are all on the same wavelength. It must be something we were all thinking about in our own lives... lol.. that's quite charming actually.
Comments
When we were (most not all) ignorant pre-teen's (<12 yrs old) and some teenagers (12-18) we don't bother to pick up a newspaper or watch the evening news to find out what's going on in our country, around the world, etc...Once we mature and begin to follow current events we soon realize how cruel the world is and then mistakingly think times have gotten worse because we have no reccolection of harmful events prior to our maturity.
Think about it, if you lived in:
Jerusalem - When the Jewish temple was being obliterated
Early Christian Churches - When Christianity was being martyred by Emperor Nero, Diocletian, etc.
Any part of the middle east - When Islam was trouncing in killing anybody who stood in their way
Europe - During the black plague which wiped out an estimated 75 million. Europes population is estimated to have dropped anywhere from 30%-60% (Bird flu parallel?)
America - During any of the wars (Revolution, French, 1812, Civil, etc...)
The World - During WWI or WWII
+ MANY MANY MORE
You would think the world was ending soon. Bad things happen.
But then you would say Natural Disasters like hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, etc. are on the rise, well I don't think that is true either.
Here is a heavily concatenated list of world disasters:
Earthquake in Syria 1138 ~ 230,000 people dead
Egypt and Syria, 1201
"The deadliest earthquake in history hit the eastern Mediterranean in July 1201. Approximately 1.1 million people were killed, mostly in Egypt and Syria. This makes it close to one of the ten worst natural disasters in recorded history."
Famine in Japan 1181 ~ 100,000 people dead
Flooding in the Netherlands 1228 ~ 100,000 dead
Flooding in the Netherlands again 1287 At least 50,000 dead
Earthquake in China 1290 atleast 100,000 people dead
Earthquake in China 1556 ~ 830,000 dead
The more recent disaster's in the news:
Tsunami in indian coean in 2004 ~Between 235,000 and 285,000 deaths
Recent cyclone in Myanmar ~ 100,000 dead
Recent earthquake in China ~ 100,000 dead
Now imagine how long the first list would be if the ancient civilizations had the technology to communicate and store information as we do now...It's wrong to assume nothing else could have occured because only in the past 100 years or so, have natural disasters been recorded so scrupulously; whenever anything happens in the world, anything at all, we know. Think about it, we have sensors to pick up even the slightest rumble caused by an earthquake anywhere in the world. Ancient civilizations obviously didn't have these technologies and so I am sure quite a few were missed. And even for the events that were recorded, we are discovering new things about history every day; who knows what we haven't uncovered yet?
When looked at in aggregate, I feel that it's a bit foolish to say we are living in troubled times; because if you would have lived in any of the scenarios above you would have said the same thing...so in essence, what's the difference?
To finish with a quote from Severus,
[quote author=Severus link=topic=6578.msg87574#msg87574 date=1210735542]
Please, you sound like a charismatic Evangelical or something. We do not do the whole 'worry! worry! Do not worry about the present, worry about the future!' thing. We need to focus on practicing confession and communion, as well as praying the Hours.
pray for me
joe
When taken in context, Christ is talking about the destruction of the temple. Verse 34 in that same chapter says, "34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place..."
When Christ said "this generation" he meant "this generation"...not 50, 100, 1000 generations. How it's stretched to the year 2008 or 2012 or 2056 is beyond me.
When Christ said "this generation" he meant "this generation"...not 50, 100, 1000 generations. How it's stretched to the year 2008 or 2012 or 2056 is beyond me.
As to that I have no clue - someone enlighten us please
pray for me
joe
I never said anything in contradiction to that. All I was trying to show is that the "pre-cursors" we see today are no differernt than the "pre-cursors" which have happened over the course of history.
When taken in context, Christ is talking about the destruction of the temple. Verse 34 in that same chapter says, "34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place..."
When Christ said "this generation" he meant "this generation"...not 50, 100, 1000 generations. How it's stretched to the year 2008 or 2012 or 2056 is beyond me.
Well, duck, the end of the world is not for us to determine, but rather, it is for us to know God's signs. We must always be ready, I agree, but now, we have been closer to the end than ever before, and lately there has been talks of the end of the world.
[quote author=duck link=topic=6578.msg87655#msg87655 date=1210798284]
When Christ said "this generation" he meant "this generation"...not 50, 100, 1000 generations. How it's stretched to the year 2008 or 2012 or 2056 is beyond me.
As to that I have no clue - someone enlighten us please
pray for me
joe
Jesus didn't mean this generation, he meant mankind. He means that the End of Times will occur only after all is fulfilled. Jesus did not literally mean this generation, but rather, all mankind.
When it comes, it comes. The bottom line is that we need to participate in church liturgically, confess our sins regularly, and perform the periods of fasting and prayers as set by the church. Whenever our Lord returns, he shall see our efforts if we have followed the above, and will award us accordingly.
severus you are 100% correct
pray for me
joe
Well aem581, when you say there has been talks about the end of the world - there always has and will be --- the key element in this topic is not to worry as Severus earlier said- it is to make sure we are more deeply engrossed in our Orthodox faith and readu to lay an account before God as it is written: "He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous[a] still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.” (Revelation 22:11).... and we shouldnt forget prayer...
pray for me
joe
joe,
That isn't what I meant. I mean even at school, people come to me and talk about the End of the World being soon. These are just people from school, and so...this must be a sign. Even some atheists I had to prove that God existed, and then, they found that everything makes sense. That's why I think it is soon. I am not saying that the Church fasts have anything to do with this.
pray for me
joe
Jesus didn't mean this generation, he meant mankind. He means that the End of Times will occur only after all is fulfilled. Jesus did not literally mean this generation, but rather, all mankind.
LOL, sorry I find that amusing :D
[quote author=aem581 link=topic=6578.msg87661#msg87661 date=1210798936]
joe,
That isn't what I meant. I mean even at school, people come to me and talk about the End of the World being soon. These are just people from school, and so...this must be a sign. Even some atheists I had to prove that God existed, and then, they found that everything makes sense. That's why I think it is soon. I am not saying that the Church fasts have anything to do with this.
So because people are talking about it, that means its soon. Well do some research and you will see that people have been talking about the end of the world for 2000 years (thats a little longer than 2 days...the difference between today and monday :D )
[quote author=aem581 link=topic=6578.msg87658#msg87658 date=1210798685]
Jesus didn't mean this generation, he meant mankind. He means that the End of Times will occur only after all is fulfilled. Jesus did not literally mean this generation, but rather, all mankind.
LOL, sorry I find that amusing :D
[quote author=aem581 link=topic=6578.msg87661#msg87661 date=1210798936]
joe,
That isn't what I meant. I mean even at school, people come to me and talk about the End of the World being soon. These are just people from school, and so...this must be a sign. Even some atheists I had to prove that God existed, and then, they found that everything makes sense. That's why I think it is soon. I am not saying that the Church fasts have anything to do with this.
So because people are talking about it, that means its soon. Well do some research and you will see that people have been talking about the end of the world for 2000 years (thats a little longer than 2 days...the difference between today and monday :D )
Let me say, though, that roughly, all of those prophecies hae been fulfilled, and yes, I know people have talked about it for 2000 years, but still, it actually becomes more likely after every second passes. Every second is one second closer to the judgment (whenever it is). ;)
aem, you keep mentioning all of these prophecies that have been filled. List all of those which fit that description.
No sourcing...
Reuniting Israel with her homeland
U.S. (I know the Bible doesn't mention the U.S., but metaphorically it does, because it mentions us as the eagle) will go into war with the Middle East
War
Corruption
Famine
People starting to believe in HIM
There are many more but my Bible isn't in front of me...
Corrected word in red.
Could someone give me the links to the ressources who talk about all these signs.
I'm disappointed to know that Bush is not the Anti-Christ. He's definately tried his best at least at creating havoc.
But, i am more interested in the actual "GENERALISED" prophesies... let each person guess the details privately (names,places where these prophesies are being fulfilled otherwise its just speculation, and then we end up spreading rumours about someone for no reason. Like what if Britney Spears is not the Anti-Christ, and I've been going around telling people that she is!??)
I'm glad that u love this topic, and it shows WE are all on the same wavelength. It must be something we were all thinking about in our own lives... lol.. that's quite charming actually.
pray for me
joe
'Soon' is relative.
Einstein said so.
1. Obama is not the Anti-Christ, he is Satan himself.
2. Hillary is Satan's Child.
And the end times are coming because the Red Sox won the World Series last year.
Sorry, I had to be funny. I've been a giddy mood all morning. It must be because someone spilled coffee on me.
I have to throw in my two (obnoxious) cents in:
1. Obama is not the Anti-Christ, he is Satan himself.
2. Hillary is Satan's Child.
And the end times are coming because the Red Sox won the World Series last year.
Sorry, I had to be funny. I've been a giddy mood all morning. It must be because someone spilled coffee on me.
Oh, how satirical comments affect the soul... for they are a delicate ballad given to lighten men's hearts and melt a heart of stone