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Comments
i dunno, but i think more towards the bad side
:-\
Except its not the end of story. The CIA was forced by the Bush administration to have an opinion on Iraq even they didn't agree with. If you don't agree, read the case of Ambassador Joseph Wilson and his wife.
We know for a fact that Saddam had WMD in the 80s because Reagan and Bush Sr. gave them to him.
We didn't need WMD to justify removing Hussein, then why did Bush use the argument? I have no problem with removing Hussein for being a tyrant, then why did Bush use a BS argument? Christians believe in using good means for a good end, not using evil means for a good end. According to this faulty line of argument, embryonic stem cell research should be allowed because the intended end is saving lives...
LOL, do you really think the American Army is fighting for God, and everyone else is for the devil? This is the psychologically twisted argument that I find so appalling. So, I guess the torturers at Abu Gharaib were "fighting for God."
So are you also an "apostate"?
If you didn't know, Iraq was a secular government, not an Islamic Republic. Tariq Aziz, the former Iraqi foreign minister, was a Chaldean Catholic. Osama bin Laden actually wanted Saddam Hussein assasinated for being not Muslim enough, I guess we are doing him favors now. Why didn't we go after Kuwait which is now run by an American supported dictator? Or Saudi Arabia, buddies of the Bush family? Or Iran, a theocratic republic? Hell, why not go after Atheist Korea, or China? Instead of a country that was actually not anti-Christian. Who named them "guerilla groups"? The white racists? Good source. Now owning guns is a divine right? That's the most ridiculous statement Ive heard yet. Yeah, along with the right to breath, I have the right to own a weapon, not even a handgun for defense, but a military-style weapon like an M-16A2 or AK-47. You say knives are dangerous, I say, never has their been a "serial stabbing." You say guns dont kill people, people kill people; I say yes, people kill people, why provide an easy method? You say we have the right to defend your family, I ask do you need a nuclear weapon in each home for that? First it was FOX, now its FOX and Sky. What's next, FOX, Sky, and ? Great FOX beats CNN in the American Nielson ratings, doesn't prove the news is good, only that people watch it. In fact, Im watching it right now, doesn't mean I agree with their right wing slant. I, along with many people, watch FOX and nod our heads at the lengths these guys will go to. I'll give you an example, back in Aug. after the Democratic National Convention, a poll conducted by FOX showed that Kerry was leading by 8%. FOX twisted this to mean that Kerry was losing because he didn't have a double-digit lead over Bush. LOL, what?! thats the biggest spinning of numbers in this election so far.
The truth was if FOX's own poll showed Kerry in the lead by 8%, he was leading by 15% by every other poll.
I knew you were going to use this worn out argument so in vogue among left wing radicals.If you use that logic there will always be a reason not to topple an evil dictator.Theres always someone worse? Surely you folks can do better than that."We cant topple that dictater because someone else is worse.It just woulnt be fair.BOO HOO.Its just too wrong".If youve ever read world history you would see just how flawed your logic really is.One country at a time.What's with the profanity?Is that a christian thing in your tradition?
Yes indeed I believe the American Army is fighting for God!Any Army that fights for liberation and freedom of oppressed people,for the toppling of mass murderers from power,is doing the Lords works.All true lovers of righteousness know this.IT seems that many who should know better prefer a mass murderer{as long as its not them suffering}.I think you find it appalling because your patriotism is suspect and you need something to hide behind.But maybe Im wrong.The torturers at Abu Gharaib were just a couple of bad apples,as there are in all armies {since the beginning of armed conflict}.The torturers of Saddam make them look like kindergardeners by comparison.
The world press and western governments.A guerilla group can be good or bad.But murderers of innocent people,{when done with pre-medition as opposed to accidental casualties of war}are always bad no matter what the cause.
I said the right to defend your family is a divine commandment.Whether you use an assault weapon or a kitchen knife makes no difference.Weapons are not evil but rather it is the evil men who use them that are at fault.The right to bear arms{even semi-automatic assualt weapons} is an American right protected by the constitution of the United States.
You hear the same type of garbage on CNN{and other liberal news media}.When Bush is up in the polls,somehow he is really losing and should be deeply worried."Why of course an incumbant president should be way ahead in the polls,the fact that he's not means he's actually losing"....lol...The difference with Fox is that you almost always have two different points of views represented,a feature sadly lacking in other news media.
You support Kerry and I'll continue to support Bush and may God bless you!
How do you know I left the denomination?It's seems you have a tendacy to jump to conclusions,as well as believing everything the left-wing media feeds you!
I don't know, thats why I asked. You have a tendency to jump to judgement.
So ecumenical dialogue is evil? Then what are you doing here?
I didn't say we shouldn't topple a dictator like Saddam. We should, but don't tell me stuff that isn't true to do it. If you want to topple a dictator, state your case and let it rest on the Truth, we can discuss the merits. If you lie or misstate the facts, you have effectly ended dialogue. If Bush wanted to topple Saddam, state the reasons and method and honestly go about it, don't tell me he's got WMD aimed at the US.
Really, so now our mission isn't the War on Terrorism, its now the War for Liberation and Freedom from Oppression? If it is, we need more troops, and the US can't do it alone.
Its funny how the evil acts at Abu Gahraib are "a couple of bad apples", but when other country people do something like that its the governments fault. Just so you know, the terrorists beheading Americans and foreigners in Iraq didn't work for Saddam Hussein, they were exiled.
You mean like when Israeli soldiers kill innocent Palestinian children? or when the US paid para-military to kill priests, nuns, and villagers in Colombia? I agree, these actions are right up there with bin Laden and Zarqawi.
Uh, no the right to bear arms is vague enough to let the government restrict certain types of weapons. The President, Congress, and the Courts can read it narrowly and allow handguns while banning military-style assault weapons. Also, as you noted the right was an amendment, so if it can be added, it can also be deleted, if people wished.
Really, FOX always has two different pov represented? Then how come leading up to the War in Iraq, when Sean Hannity interviewed an ex-Marine war protester all the man got to say was "uh" before he was interrupted. The full 7 minute interview, Hannity editorialized and didn't let him say one word. This is where your jumping to conclusions. I never said I supported Kerry, in fact I have issues with him as well. But you refuse to see past the rhetoric on Bush. He is not the saint you prop him up to be. He is not God's general to save the rest of the world unilaterally. This kind of thinking is dangerous as we can see from looking at history.
God Bless you.
maybe you could all help me with something. I actually live in Canada so I can't vote in the US, but maybe you could help me understand something. I find many US copts feel that George Bush is this fantastically religious person who defends christianity and tries to keep it in governement. Personally, I feel, George Bush simply pays lip service to Christianity to try and keep his ultra-conservative christian base solid. Why do Americans perceive George Bush as religious? I guess I should explain why I don't think he's religious...
1) Politicians inherently cannot be VERY christian. That ship sailed a long time ago. George Bush AND John Kerry spend the whole campaign manipulating and flat out lying to try and make the other look bad. How can we say that someone who literally lies constantly is a good representative of christianity.
2) George Bush always seems to speak for God, and that is something that really annoys the bloody hell out of me. "God wanted me to be president", "God chose me for this task etc..." How does he know what God wanted? What kind of a Christian claims to be chosen by God? Does that mean God chose Hitler? Or Saddam? or Mubarak? Whatever happened to humans having free will?
3) President Bush not only lies while campaigning, but he lied and took the US into war. While I realize this is controversial, I look at this two ways. If he didn't lie, he is an extremely incompetent president. What kind of a person takes his country to war without being sure that the intelligence is solid and reliable. Furthermore, what kind of a president actually believes that he can walk into Iraq with so few soldiers and be treated as a hero. Come on..we know the middle east. Arabs are not exactly the most peaceable of people under the best of circumstances. We have problems in Egypt with just 2 ethnic groups (Copts + Mussis), just think about Iraq where you have 4 (Kurds, Sunnis, Shias & Christians). Not to mention the fact that they've always been at eachothers throats. So if he didn't lie, he's just an idiot with absolutley no grasp of how the rest of the world functions and thinks. Personally, I don't think he is that stupid. In fact I think he is very smart, sly and manipulative. I believe he KNEW that Iraq was not involved in 9/11 and that the intelligence was bad. Why when the CIA reported that Iraq had no weapons did he insist that they rewrite the report? That is manipualtion, that is lying. He lied and sent the USA to war. Can you call this man a Christian? Someone who lies and as a result kills many innocent civilians and almost a thousand of his own countrymen? Personally, I don't find this matches with Christian values at all.
5) George Bush doesn't believe he's made a single mistake as president. ohhh, that's right, I forgot, only God and George Bush are errorless.... Come on, one of the most basic Christian values is repentance, and to repent you need to be able to admit your mistakes and failings.
All this leads me to believe that Bush is not a Christian at all, but simple uses it to advance his chances at being re-elected. Do I think he cares about abortion. No, he uses it as a political tool. Is he agaist gay marriage. If he was, why did he insist on stopping it using a constitutional amendmant. A constitutional amendmant is THE HARDEST thing to pass in congress and the senate. I believe 3/4 of each house has to pass it and EVERYONE knew this wasn't going to happen. He uses these issues as a campaign tool. Frankly, I think he is more dangerous than an atheist President, because George Bush is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Anyways, I've ranted on long enough....but I don't see how people can consider George Bush a Christian president. Maybe there's something I'm missing....
Cheers,
Fadi
Evidently your missing a whole lot!...lol
I feel sorry for you if God has never spoken to your heart .God can,and still does speak to people today,by His Holy Spirit,calling them to a certain specific task.Of course a christian can say God told them to do something.Real christianity is an intimate relationship with God.God speaks to those He loves.Why do you judge Bush as being a liar and evil?Are you like God who can see the motivation of his heart?Why do you use curse words such as"bloody****,dont you know that to use such words is wrong?The Bible says "let there be no filthy speaking".
THE BIBLE ALSO SAYS: Matthew 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged." and you are judging!
Also, no offence but I think that you are just for Bush because he is protestant, then again I don't blame you...if there was a Coptic candidate I would probably vote for him...
Mike
You're second point is correct, I did use the words "bloody hell". I'm sorry if you find bloody hell offensive. It is a colloquialism that unfortunantly is well integrated into my speach pattern. Sorry about that, but I still don't see what that has to do with my argument about George Bush not being a "Christian" President. Maybe I am a bit idealistic, but I believe that a "Christian" president should actually perform Christian acts, not simply pay lip service to the religion. I hardly call lying to the American people to start an illegal war a "Christian" act.
You are right, I do not know the motivation in George's Bush's heart (frankly I don't believe he has one). But, in an election year, that is what you must do. You must make judgements on politicians in order to choose the one you feel is best for the position. So, I must make a judgement on the motivation in his heart. You as well Mr. Franklin do not know the motivation in his heart, and for you to believe it is good, you as well are making a judgement. It is unavoidable to make judgements on the intentions of politicians in an election year.
That is very true!Jesus said "you shall know them by their fruit.A good tree bears good fruit..." What you fail to realize isthat God commands His people sometimes to do things that are hard and may even appear to be wrong according to worldly standards and values.Many people here seem to think war is always evil and so if a leader engages in armed conflict he is automaticaly evil.This is just not true.The God of the Old Testament,who is God the Father,Jesus,and the Holy Spirit,commanded many of his people to engage in war,one time he actually commanded his people to kill every man,woman,and child of His enemies,the Caananites.Moses,Joshua,Barak,Gideon,King David,etc.etc. were all men of action who at one time or another engaged in military warfare.Men like King David did so with brutal effeciency{sad to say he killed many woman as well as men}.Even though David was a man of blood he was still considered the "sweet psalmist" and a "man after God's own heart".The 10 commandments do not say"thou shalt not kill",but rather in the original Hebrew it is better transated as "thou shalt not commit murder".My point in all this is the fact that the same God who ordered and gave his approval to military actions in the past,is still the same God;He changeth not,Jesus Christ the same yesterday,today and forever;allows and approves of certain military action today as He has throughout world history.The Bible says in the book of Romans that the Lord has appointed the government{all governments,even those that stray away from God and end up actually against him}"to be the sword of the LORD,to punish all evildoers".War is sometimes{even in this time of the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ}nescaccary and part of the ordained plan of Almighty God.The same God of the Old Testament,the one of whom the bible says,"YaHWaY is a warrior".So just because Mr. Bush engaged an evil tyrant,a mass muderer and torturer who killed 1.2 million people,does not actualy mean he is evil or disobedient to God but rather because of his motivation and true desire to help and free oppressed people,he is actually doing the work of God by destroying and putting an end to "evildoerers".Manypeople say that they are mad at Bush because he "lied",not because he went to war like many christian leaders have in the past.My answer is this-he didnt lie{he may have been mislead just like many leadeers have been in world history;many people hold George Bush up to a higher standard than any other leader in world history;they think he must be perfect,and every bad thing or mistake is his own personal fault- is he an inntellgence officer,is he a soldier on the ground,a prison guard who abuses prisoners;does he have to to everything for everybody,does he have to be perfect so people wont call him evil?}.You say he lied but do you know 100% for sure that he actually lied?You seem to think he is infallible,that somehow he knew more than the CIA and all the other world intelligence agencies who said that there were definetly WMD's.You really think he knew more than all of them,or rather did he not accept at face value the reports; trusting in the integrity of the CIA.One last point I want to make is this:Was it right to remove the evil Saddam or not?Is it Gods will to let a "devil" continue to murder,torture,and rape forever,with no justice or relief in sight?Or does not God always raise up a man to accomplish justice and retribution upon the head of the evildoer!And if it was right to remove Saddam,then why do you use the excuse that Bush "lied" to condemn what was a just action.Ethier it was right to remove him or it was not,and it doesnt matter what the reason to go to war was.
No, I am not judging anyone but rather am only pointing out what the Word of God says"when we see a brother sin we must confront our brother with the truth so that he might repent"{pharaphrased}.In no way was I judging another brother and if it came across as such ,then I apologize,since it was certainly not my intent but I was actually seeking to obey Gods commandment and to help my brother.We all sin,and we all need correction and gentle reproof from time to time.
i thought bush was catholic?
No, he's a Methodist who acts like an evangelical fundamentalist. Its funny cause the Methodists are one of the most non-traditional groups, they have women minister, gay marriage, allow abortion, etc.
It really is strange how some people who get outraged at words are not at all even slightly questioning lying, manipulating, and sending people to their deaths. People need to get their priorities in order!
Since Im an evangelical fundamentalist,and quite proud of it,you can now understand my support of this great man...lol
You just dont get it ,do you!I dont believe Bush lied,engaged in manipulation,or sent people to their deaths{a volunteer army who gets paid to go whenever and wherever the government sends them,if you dont want to fight or face the possibility of death in combat dont join the Army and certainly dont accept the pay you recieve to do just that.It's just that simple!}Rather I believe it is you and people like you,left wing radicals and rapid America haters who are lying,manipulating the truth,and unpatriotically undermining the support and morale of our Armed Forces.Furthermore by your lies and slanders you are bearing false witness towards the God ordained leader{"the sword of the Lord"}and a christian brother and believer,thus unless you repent you will one day stand before the Lord Jesus Christ and give account of your activities{as we all will}.As I stated in my previous post{if you even bothered to read it}war, though always brutal,is oftentimes necessary and even according to the will of God.As a person who's family has served in several wars {and suffered loss}I find your comments quite offensive.Save it for those who dont know what it means to lose friends or relatives in combat.
May God bless you and be kind to you this day.
I don't know how pressured you guys feel since you have 2 choices : 1. BAD 2. WORSE, I feel sorry for you guys and I hope someday America will be ruled by a leader that follows Christ and that would lead the Country to progress Spiritually.....
God Bless.
Mike
totally agree
but still my opiniion is that the best of the two but still not the best is bush
(is that made any sense) :-\
i mean that bush is not that great but definately better than kerry
also the thing that i dont like is that my teacher is sooooooooooooo anti Bush that she is starting to feed us falso stuff about him
i really hate that and im trying to prove my point but everyone is against me (they dont like bush at all)
my teacher doesnt like bush because he stopped the stem cell research
she is very upset because her husband died from something like that
http://factcheck.org/
(not .com or .net, as it was wrongly said in the debate)
and from what I've read, this suggests both candidates lie, and manipulate the truth to push their case to the public...
Mike
Where did you get that wild number?The USA has lost around 1000 soldiers,while Iraqi estimates{during the bombing;during the actual war}are between 30,000 and 60,000,of which the vast majority were Saddam loyalists{murders,rapists and torturers-the Republican Guard}and Muslim terrorists{Jihadists}.Where in the world would you come up with a number like 1 million casualties a year in Iraq?You know I really like you Mike,and I dont want to offend you in any way,so please dont take this the wrong way,but really your not being fair to president Bush and your letting your blind hatred of the man get the best of you.That number is simply not the truth,not even close.I simply cant understand what the man ever did to you personally that would make you hate him so much and that you would rather see people murdered,raped, and tortured by a crazy lunatic like Saddam{all of which can be verified by many news agencies}instead of being allowed to vote ,live lawfully,and choose their own destiny.Canada didnt help the people of Iraq,you didnt help the people of Iraq,{I didnt help the people of Iraq}but George Bush did help them.No matter what your news media says there are many,many people{Ive seen them interveiwed} who are very glad to be free of an evil man like Saddam.The only ones you see on the BBC or Canadian news are the ungrateful Muslims who hate all christians{including orthodox}and hate America because it stands for christian ideals.And you are supporting them!I just cant imagine how you can do such a thing!Bush at his worst is nothing compared to Saddam and his government.If you truly cant see that ,I really dont know what to say!Is it because you dont like protestants that you dont like Bush?You mentioned something about his being a protestant before.I know protestants gave you a hard time but really you should realize that orthodox christians have also persecuted evangelical christians as well.In Ethiopia they have actually killed evangelicals and they actively,on a daily basis persecute "protestant"christians.In Greece they do the same thing even with the active consent of the government.Besides persecuting evangelical christians the Orthodox church in Russia has had a long and well documented history of killing and persecuting Jews{for hundreds of years}.So you see, what you suffered is relatively minor in comparison.You need to forgive those who have wrongfully mistreated you just as we must forgive those who have killed and persecuted us{evangelicals}.Please dont hate Bush because he is a protestant and please dont believe everthing you hear in the media about the president,since much of it is outright propaganda.There is certainly not a million people dying in Iraq every year.Thats just not true!I have heard many things in the muslim media against coptic christianity{one example being some story about what they call the coptic priesthood "the cadilac clergy",some nonsense about how they are all driving cadillacs and living rich and extravagant lifestyles,especially the Pope}but I certainly dont believe all that anti-coptic garbage that they throw out there.Its just a pack of lies by people who hate Copts!And yet you believe and pass on to others every evil report about George Bush,most which dont even have a shred of evidence to support their false allegations.We have to be fair!You accused me of judging yet you have no problem judging Bush on a daily basis.Come on, I know your more fair and just than that;you seem to be a very commited christian and also a very nice person.All I ask is that you give Bush a fair chance and dont hold him to a higher standerd than what you would do for other world leaders.You asked me why I liked Bush so much and why I would so strongly defend him.Well the answer is not so much that I like Bush but rather I cant stand for people to lie and bear false witness against another christian brother,whether its a coptic brother or a protestant brother.I hope I have not offended you in any way but I hope I have caused you to think a little more deeply on this subject.
May God richly bless you my Coptic friend!
Bush isn't anti-abortion. He has never said he would change Roe v Wade, or appoint pro-life judges.
Rather I believe it is you and people like you,left wing radicals and rapid America haters who are lying,manipulating the truth,and unpatriotically undermining the support and morale of our Armed Forces.
Like me, huh? I served in the Army, when did you? My unpatriotic ass was an MP, what did you do other than let the other guys fight for you?
Furthermore by your lies and slanders you are bearing false witness towards the God ordained leader{"the sword of the Lord"}and a christian brother and believer,thus unless you repent you will one day stand before the Lord Jesus Christ and give account of your activities{as we all will}.
Here you go with the God ordained leader junk again, we'll see how long that lasts if Kerry is President. Then all of a sudden God didn't ordain, when He disagrees with you. Its amazing how you can't see your hypocrisy, you call me a liar, slanderer, unpatriotic, America hater, then tell me to repent for disagreeing with Bush' s political stance.
As I stated in my previous post{if you even bothered to read it}war, though always brutal,is oftentimes necessary and even according to the will of God.As a person who's family has served in several wars {and suffered loss}I find your comments quite offensive.Save it for those who dont know what it means to lose friends or relatives in combat.
Its easy to sit on the sidelines and direct other people to fight your battles for you. Why don't you go to Iraq? War may be necessary, but only when fighting for Truth and Justice, not misinformation and propaganda.
Maybe you should ask these "evangelicals" what they are doing in Greece and Russia? These are Orthodox Christian countries. They don't need to be "evangelicalized."
Why is it you don't mind when the right-wing lies and bears false witness against your Christian brother John Kerry? or is he not Christian according to your wise judgements?
While not serving in the U.S Army I was doing missionary work in places{"Nepal" for one,the middle east,Quatamala,etc, remember the guerrilla activity in central America,I was there;even in Mexico Iv'e operated in Narco areas where the mexican army does'nt even feel safe ie. the sierra madres}that were probably far more dangerous than anything you ever experienced during your enlistment.Places that the state department advised Americans not to venture,places where they actually killed Americans.So I wouldnt question my courage Mr MP.Iv'e seen my share of danger and violence and am quite capable of holding my own.You are certainly unpatriotic when you lie about our Commander in Chief during a time of war and then have the audacity to claim you are a patriotic American;especially when your very actions prove otherwise!
Any leader is a God ordained one if he is lawfully elected and strives to to good!Kerry included!
It's amazing how you cant see your hypocrisy,I quess your blinded by your hatred of evangelical fundamentalist christians!
Thats all you speak.You havent spoken one word of truth!
I know full well what its like to be in a dangerous situation and face violence.I was on the frontlines of a battle more important than the military one. I've been threatened with death,been activly persecuted in many countries.I know full well what it's like to stare death and persecution in the face and have fought the battles ,by God's grace,myself.
Who said I didnt!I dont like any christian brother to be slandered,unlike you ,who activly slanders and bears false witness against your christian brothers.
Which is exactly what were fighting for in Iraq but your just too blind to see!You seem to prefer murder,torture and oppression!
By the way, yes Saddam was horrible. But in all his horribleness, he kept the country stable and quite safe. Iraqis are now WORSE off than they were before. Their country is in chaos, their entire infrastructure was destroyed and they have none of the safety they had under Saddam due to American incompetance in Iraq. 2 % of Iraqis have a positive view of the USA and I don't care how big the margin of error is, even if its 30 %, its still an incredibly poor number. If the US administration is so worried about dictators why not go for North Korea, it poses a much more immediate threat (actually has WMDs) than Iraq did.
Oh and about Protestant Evangelicals in Orthodox countries, while I by no means support killing or persecuting them, they should not be permitted to evangelize the Orthodox. We are proud of the fact that we are the last unspoiled Christian sect in the world and we do not need you to tell us how to be Christians. We've been doing it for much longer than you have and we have kept true to the faith of Jesus and the Apostles, unlike Protestants who feel they can simply change Christianity to suit themselves.
Then people like you would gripe and complain all day about how evil America is!And as Ive explained in previous posts the casualties would be enormous{unlike Iraq}and would probably result in nuclear war.
I would love to get along with the Orthodox and Catholic believers,and have made every attempt to do so, but it seems at every turn Im confronted by the same old message"we orthodox are the only true christians,all others are heretics".Thats fine but just remember many of you live in western countries that have been traditionally{at least nominally}protestant for hundreds of years.At least you could show the same respect we give to you!We dont judge you or deny the fact you have a right to worship God.Indeed we allow you do worship and evangelize as you see fit even though the majority of our citizens are not Orthodox.Christians should love one another,not tear each other down!