Marianne by being sad or upset what can you change? and the reason i said be cheerful is based on the verse that says "These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.” John 16:33
[quote author=MarMar91 link=board=4;threadid=2663;start=30#msg41591 date=1130897269] I think what u guys r implying by sad is that we feel for them, not to say, which we easily can, thats in Egypt, but since im in the states, why shud i care? NO NO NO marianne and i definitaly care and didnt mean that we dont care. and i am not too sure what is your explanation of sad, can you explain that a bit more for me thanks
you and your double negation your confusing a senior in college for crying out loud ;) haha thanks for welcoming me back you made it sound i was off the force i understand what you mean but if you read through the other posts which i am sure you did you would get into more depressing mood than what is needed the situtation by itself is depressing so we should have an up rising mood on here saying don't worry things will get better not a down hill mood i guess thats the summary of my last LOOOOOOOONG post
well i meant sad as in the whole thing is sad...not just feeling sad for them...but like what's happening to the church and to the pope and all that...not sympathy...but just sadness from the situation overall....but i guess u are right in we shouldn't be more depressed about it....but ya...pray and fast guys so God could hear our cries and keep His church standing strong.
this seems like another dating thread where i have a different point of view than everybody else. i guess what i can say is do what you see right and will see how the news fold out
As far as I know...the pope was in the monastery for quite a while until someone can solve this...but I just heard that he got out, and wished them a good "eid" to their sheikh...so I guess he is trying to be the first to be peaceful with them and stuff....so ya...if anyone else has news...u are welcome to post.
[quote author=Mina A. link=board=4;threadid=2663;start=45#msg41709 date=1130984872] is there a way to download the ram file so u dont have to be onlinr to listen to it??
Right-click the link in Christ4Life's post; select "Save Target As...", and then select your desired download destination.
People, last Wednesday the Pope was sick with cold, but his sermon was the most powerful ever...he talked about "Haa ana ma3akom kol el ayam waa 2illa inkiidaa2 el dahr." He taught us how God is always with his church, always, and the He will save her, as he saved her before in more dire situations...but the point is WE personally understand so...personally....
You know what people...I have NEVER seen people flocking around their leader as people flocked around Pope Shenouda....woooow...really...I felt that we're all stray sheep and we flocked around the shepherd....wow....only I wish I personally, as a Sunday School teacher, also rally my boys to the Lord...may God bless Pope Shenouda always...
People...el Fagr is a "yellow" newspaper...we have NOOOOO idea about its credibility...I'm not saying it's wrong...but no official of the muslim brotherhood said anything yet....
Besides...the church is not based on Pope Shenouda as a person....u guys kidding?! It's based on the Lord Himself! The Lord chose Pope Shenouda...and He will choose another pope in His good time....
Let's not play the role of God and pray to Him that we personally benefit from this ordeal and that we as a church become firmer in Him than we already are....
People, last Wednesday the Pope was sick with cold, but his sermon was the most powerful ever...he talked about "Haa ana ma3akom kol el ayam waa 2illa inkiidaa2 el dahr." He taught us how God is always with his church, always, and the He will save her, as he saved her before in more dire situations...but the point is WE personally understand so...personally....
did u attend the ceremony(not sure from the spelling)??
WOW, that must be a very GREAT blessing, and it would be awesome to attend, but of course, we are way over there on the other side of the globe so ya! lol!
oh man....I just heard some news...the play was never even played...and it was just a newspaper that started all of that...they did an investigation...and no one ever seen it...WOW...all i could say is GOD is great....look how things changed around...the only thing I am worried about thou would be the Christian youth in egy do something CRAZY like what happened during the priest's wife...but I am sure God will keep us safe...Thanks God :)
[quote author=Marianne87 link=board=4;threadid=2663;start=45#msg41808 date=1131066032] oh man....I just heard some news...the play was never even played...and it was just a newspaper that started all of that...they did an investigation...and no one ever seen it...WOW...all i could say is GOD is great....look how things changed around...the only thing I am worried about thou would be the Christian youth in egy do something CRAZY like what happened during the priest's wife...but I am sure God will keep us safe...Thanks God :)
The Church authorities never denied that a play of this sort existed, nor did they deny it ever being played - they denied however, that it was offensive to Islamic doctrine and to the Islamic prophet. It is the content, intent and implications of the play that are in dispute - that it ever occured or existed is not. The authorities affirm that it was indeed played at the church approximately two years ago.
There is also some dispute regarding the DVD that has been circulated, with regards to its being deceptively edited and redacted in a manner to incite the controversey in the first place.
iqbal what marianne was stating is a fact written in the news paper EL-Ahram it wasn't rumors and here is the link http://www.ahram.org.eg/Index.asp?CurFN=fron7.htm&DID=8660 to the ahram and for you that dont know el ahram is the no1 trusted newspaper in egypt
Al-Majlis Al-Milli, a council that officially represents the Coptic community and is chaired by Pope Shenouda, acknowledged that the play was performed in the church -- two years ago.
Not only did they affirm that the play was performed, but upon this presumption they then sought to explain it:
Dismissing claims that the play was meant to insult Islam, the council said -- in a statement sent to Al-Ahram Weekly -- that "it was performed for one day within the context of combating terrorism."
This is affirmed by numerous other news article, which also refer to statements by the parish priest, who likewise did not deny that the play was performed, but rather questioned the nature of the response to such a play, in consideration of the fact it was performed approximately 2 years ago, and did not attack the Islamic religion.
Maybe you would like to try and reconcile the above with what is exactly stated in the arabic article you linked me to, for such a blatant contradiction within the same periodical, is highly unreasonable for me to assume.
That's where I got the news from...and by the way...that's the ahram for tomorrow...since the time difference...so that's the latest news on the subject...the police investigated it...so its more credible than the one you have since the one posted is the Ahram from Oct.26
here is what the article says that Maher Abd El wahed the highest judge in the country basiclly the higest seat in the law of egypt that after investegation the play was never played in the church or anybody saw the cd and it was all false accusation is what caused the people to rite. and yes marianne the news on the ahram is the newest news because it just came up but what iqbal is basiclly saying is that the church priest and the church gave an offical statement saying that the church played the play two years ago and keep in mind iqbal the ahram in english is weekly but the one marianne and i talking about is daily
Credibility is not established by the “latest article”; credibility concerns the trustworthiness and reliability of the source of the material pertaining to the truth and reliability of its subject matter regardless of date. If al-ahram claims to have received a direct admission from the Pope and Synod that the play was indeed performed – even quoting an implicit admission from them – yet then goes on to claim that the play was never performed, then al-ahram has no credibility, and neither article can be trusted.
The fact however that numerous other news reports have affirmed the very same claim – that the Church admitted to the play being performed albeit denying that it was incitive in any sense – affirms the very subject matter of the al-ahram article I linked to.
That is truly quite an incredible contradiction you are attempting to expose here. I do not doubt what you are saying, however, if we were to assume that such is the case, then there is really no reason to trust even the “latest” article, for how do you know that the next future article may not abrogate the one you are reading now.
The “latest” article may update the facts of a previous article or even confirm or reject the un-confirmed claims of a previous article, however they cannot reasonably be trusted if they assert facts in contradiction to previously asserted facts (which is the case as it seems now). There is therefore a problem here: either al-ahram lied in quoting Church officials, or Church officials were negligent in their admissions to al-ahram.
There is something suspcious about this; i wouldn't jump to conclusions as of yet, we must be very careful in such matters.
Al-ahram is not the only newspaper to have quoted or received an admission from Church officials regarding the fact a play was indeed performed at the Church. Even news reported by Coptic sources affirm this. There is something very wrong here.
here is my judgement call and thats just me lets wait till we hear an offical word from the church then, because as you said iqbal Al-Ahram gave two different reports contradiciting to each other and trust me man the newspapers in egypt would love to make everybody believe their story is true and that is why the other newspapers where like ya ya they did show the play and if a newspaper would say no they didn't 1) everybody will ask well how do you know and why you siding with them and it would be a big headache for the newspaper so they all just went with the flow
i just want to say that a bishop once said that we should not buy the ahram because of all the bad things it says. so i would not believe anything stated in it. just believe what your church priest tells you and pray most importantly.
Comments
I think what u guys r implying by sad is that we feel for them, not to say, which we easily can, thats in Egypt, but since im in the states, why shud i care?
NO NO NO marianne and i definitaly care and didnt mean that we dont care. and i am not too sure what is your explanation of sad, can you explain that a bit more for me thanks
haha thanks for welcoming me back you made it sound i was off the force
i understand what you mean but if you read through the other posts which i am sure you did you would get into more depressing mood than what is needed the situtation by itself is depressing so we should have an up rising mood on here saying don't worry things will get better not a down hill mood i guess thats the summary of my last LOOOOOOOONG post
i guess what i can say is do what you see right and will see how the news fold out
is there a way to download the ram file so u dont have to be onlinr to listen to it??
Right-click the link in Christ4Life's post; select "Save Target As...", and then select your desired download destination.
People, last Wednesday the Pope was sick with cold, but his sermon was the most powerful ever...he talked about "Haa ana ma3akom kol el ayam waa 2illa inkiidaa2 el dahr." He taught us how God is always with his church, always, and the He will save her, as he saved her before in more dire situations...but the point is WE personally understand so...personally....
You know what people...I have NEVER seen people flocking around their leader as people flocked around Pope Shenouda....woooow...really...I felt that we're all stray sheep and we flocked around the shepherd....wow....only I wish I personally, as a Sunday School teacher, also rally my boys to the Lord...may God bless Pope Shenouda always...
People...el Fagr is a "yellow" newspaper...we have NOOOOO idea about its credibility...I'm not saying it's wrong...but no official of the muslim brotherhood said anything yet....
Besides...the church is not based on Pope Shenouda as a person....u guys kidding?! It's based on the Lord Himself! The Lord chose Pope Shenouda...and He will choose another pope in His good time....
Let's not play the role of God and pray to Him that we personally benefit from this ordeal and that we as a church become firmer in Him than we already are....
In HIS Nme,
RFZ
In HIS Name,
RFZ
Forever,
Coptic Servent
GBU
MarMar...do NOT play the role of God! ;D...he'll choose in HIS good time, by HIS good way, THROUGH his good children....
Easy on urself....we need GOD who gave us Pope Shenouda...and who will always give his church what is best for her....
It's for us to see and learn....and pray.
In HIS Name,
RFZ
In HIS Name,
RFZ
oh man....I just heard some news...the play was never even played...and it was just a newspaper that started all of that...they did an investigation...and no one ever seen it...WOW...all i could say is GOD is great....look how things changed around...the only thing I am worried about thou would be the Christian youth in egy do something CRAZY like what happened during the priest's wife...but I am sure God will keep us safe...Thanks God :)
The Church authorities never denied that a play of this sort existed, nor did they deny it ever being played - they denied however, that it was offensive to Islamic doctrine and to the Islamic prophet. It is the content, intent and implications of the play that are in dispute - that it ever occured or existed is not. The authorities affirm that it was indeed played at the church approximately two years ago.
There is also some dispute regarding the DVD that has been circulated, with regards to its being deceptively edited and redacted in a manner to incite the controversey in the first place.
I cannot read arabic, however, I highly doubt that this article affirms what Marrianne is saying i.e. that the play was never performed. Here you will find an online english article of the al-ahram newsletter, which states the following: Not only did they affirm that the play was performed, but upon this presumption they then sought to explain it: This is affirmed by numerous other news article, which also refer to statements by the parish priest, who likewise did not deny that the play was performed, but rather questioned the nature of the response to such a play, in consideration of the fact it was performed approximately 2 years ago, and did not attack the Islamic religion.
Maybe you would like to try and reconcile the above with what is exactly stated in the arabic article you linked me to, for such a blatant contradiction within the same periodical, is highly unreasonable for me to assume.
The fact however that numerous other news reports have affirmed the very same claim – that the Church admitted to the play being performed albeit denying that it was incitive in any sense – affirms the very subject matter of the al-ahram article I linked to.
That is truly quite an incredible contradiction you are attempting to expose here. I do not doubt what you are saying, however, if we were to assume that such is the case, then there is really no reason to trust even the “latest” article, for how do you know that the next future article may not abrogate the one you are reading now.
The “latest” article may update the facts of a previous article or even confirm or reject the un-confirmed claims of a previous article, however they cannot reasonably be trusted if they assert facts in contradiction to previously asserted facts (which is the case as it seems now). There is therefore a problem here: either al-ahram lied in quoting Church officials, or Church officials were negligent in their admissions to al-ahram.
There is something suspcious about this; i wouldn't jump to conclusions as of yet, we must be very careful in such matters.
Al-ahram is not the only newspaper to have quoted or received an admission from Church officials regarding the fact a play was indeed performed at the Church. Even news reported by Coptic sources affirm this. There is something very wrong here.
You guys just exposed what we in Egypt know for a century lol ;D
Al-Ahram newspaper has no type of credibility in the first place...it's the government's mouthpiece anyways....
Let's all pray people....
MarMar91: Plz forgive me for being so harsh....plz sorry :-[
I just meant, my dear sister, that pray for a smooth transaction of authority in God's good time....
In HIS Name,
RFZ