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Comments
St. Ignatius of Antioch (from Chapter 10 of his letter to the Ephesians)
And pray ye without ceasing in behalf of other men. For there is in them hope of repentance that they may attain to God. See, then, that they be instructed by your works, if in no other way. Be ye meek in response to their wrath, humble in opposition to their boasting: to their blasphemies return your prayers; in contrast to their error, be ye steadfast in the faith; and for their cruelty, manifest your gentleness. While we take care not to imitate their conduct, let us be found their brethren in all true kindness; and let us seek to be followers of the Lord (who ever more unjustly treated, more destitute, more condemned?), that so no plant of the devil may be found in you, but ye may remain in all holiness and sobriety in Jesus Christ, both with respect to the flesh and spirit.
St. John Chrysostom
"If only ten among us be righteous, the ten will become twenty, the twenty fifty, the fifty a hundred, the hundred a thousand, and the thousand will become the entire city"
I was wondering if anyone could supply the quote by St Pachomius (I think) that said something along the lines of not seeking miracles because if you help someone understand the Gospel you have opened the eyes of the blind, if you lead someone to Christ, you have raised one from the dead etc.
I have been looking for it and cannot find it, so it will be much appreciated.
Blessed Fast to all
Salvation of a City and Leading a Holy Life
St. John Chrysostom
"If only ten among us be righteous, the ten will become twenty, the twenty fifty, the fifty a hundred, the hundred a thousand, and the thousand will become the entire city"
with all due respect for St. John Chrysostom, from the above quote i could draw 2 possible conclusions:
1. there are not even 10 men that can be considered righteous among us.
2. this mathematical approach to turning entire cities into righteous groups of people may be based on a 'production line' mindset. The good side of it is that it sounds positive and motivating. the not so good side is that this calculation does not allow room for 'error',as it seems to count the chicks before they hatch.
[quote author=anba bola link=topic=1722.msg132546#msg132546 date=1299640443]
Salvation of a City and Leading a Holy Life
St. John Chrysostom
"If only ten among us be righteous, the ten will become twenty, the twenty fifty, the fifty a hundred, the hundred a thousand, and the thousand will become the entire city"
with all due respect for St. John Chrysostom, from the above quote i could draw 2 possible conclusions:
1. there are not even 10 men that can be considered righteous among us.
2. this mathematical approach to turning entire cities into righteous groups of people may be based on a 'production line' mindset. The good side of it is that it sounds positive and motivating. the not so good side is that this calculation does not allow room for 'error',as it seems to count the chicks before they hatch.
You are aware that St. John Chrysostom was around in the 4th century right? Way before any production lines and their so-called "mind-sets" were around. What you're saying is not in any way applicable.
so, when you analyse this quote within its own context (4th century) you can/should test its truthfulness.
my argument was that... since we do not have entire cities come to Christ neither in 4th century nor in 21st, we can rightly assert that either there were not even 10 christians in John Chrysostom's city, or his calculations were wrong. or his assertion is not meant to be taken literally...
as for the production line 'mindset' we have to recognise that the idea of production line is not a 21st century product! For the production line is the materialisation of a 'mindset', idea or mentality. therefore it is not wrong to assume that the 'production line mindset' existed in the 4th century, before the 21st production line was physically developed. therefore i think it is not wrong to assert that a production line mindset could be identified in a 4th century quote.
what i am saying may not be in any way applicable, just as you have suggested, but i still appreciate you taking the time to kindly respond.
Furthermore I think we have lost what it means to be righteous. Righteousness here means to be truly Christ-Like in all of our actions. I have seen firsthand that if you have one Christ-Like person many around them catch this spiritual fire of theirs. I would liken it to a fire. If we have "become flame" those with hearts entombed in ice would also catch fire. It would obviously spread until everyone would also have this fire. It is this which St. John Chrysostom speaks about.
It is in this way that the Apostles preached, not through words alone, but through righteousness, and through their hands thousands converted. If we look at the evangelism of the Apostles, and then look at ourselves we can see how much we have fallen short.
with all due respect for St. John Chrysostom, from the above quote i could draw 2 possible conclusions:
1. there are not even 10 men that can be considered righteous among us.
Matthew 13:8
But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
If Jesus Himself says that when seed (His Words) fall on good ground (us) and yield crop (righteousness) brings hudredfold, sixty fold or even thirty ford, who are we to speak against.
ALSO, who are we to know the heart and call someone righteous or not. we can only judge what we see.
also please don't post comments in this thread. only quotes. i you would like to comment, open a new thread with the quote.
it look like i am always looking for an argument. :-[ sorry...
St. John Chrysostom
Commentary on 2 Timothy. On verse 3:5, page 1039
For let us suppose any one to be “covetous, a traitor, heady,” and yet to believe aright; of what advantage is it, if he wants all the qualities becoming a Christian, if he does not the works that characterize godliness, but outdoes the Greeks in impiety, when he is a mischief to those with whom he associates, causes God to be blasphemed,
and the doctrine to be slandered by his evil deeds?
St. Ephraim the Syrian
“The princes of evil have blinded me with their passions and by their cunningness they have robbed me of the beauty of my youth. What can I do, now that I have lost my purity? I will cry out to Christ, that He might return my beauty to me- and then will the evil ones be ashamed.
My Savior cries out to me, to His disciple: do not despair of they salvation; I will restore thee and forgive thee thy sins. I have found thee and I will not leave thee; for I have redeemed thee with my very own Blood.
Cry out, O sinner, with all your might, and spare not your throat; for your Lord is merciful and loves those who repent. As soon as you return, your Father will come out aforehand to meet you. He will slaughter the fatted calf, clothe you in a fine robe, and rejoice in you.”