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Works and salvation

mannanmannan
edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church
Are there any articles or books about Works and salvation?
Thanks

Comments

  • clayclay
    I like this analysis by C.S. Lewis (Mere Christianity; http://www.philosophyforlife.com/mc22.htm):

    Christians have often disputed as to whether what leads the Christian home is good actions, or Faith in Christ. I have no right really to speak on such a difficult question, but it does seem to me like asking which blade in a pair of scissors is most necessary. A serious moral effort is the only thing that will bring you to the point where you throw up the sponge. Faith in Christ is the only thing to save you from despair at that point: and out of that Faith in Him good actions must inevitably come. There are two parodies of the truth which different sets of Christians have, in the past, been accused by other Christians of believing: perhaps they may make the truth clearer. One set were accused of saying, 'Good actions are all that matters. The best good action is charity. The best kind of charity is giving money. The best thing to give money to is the Church. So, hand us over £10,000 and we will see you through.' The answer to that nonsense, of course, would be that good actions done for that motive, done with the idea that Heaven can be bought, would not be good actions at all, but only commercial speculations. The other set were accused of saying, 'Faith is all that matters. Consequently, if you have faith, it doesn't matter what you do. Sin away, my lad, and have a good time and Christ will see that it makes no difference in the end.' The answer to that nonsense is that, if what you call your 'faith' in Christ does not involve taking the slightest notice of what He says, then it is not Faith at all - not faith or trust in Him, but only intellectual acceptance of some theory about Him.

    The Bible really seems to clinch the matter when it puts. the two things together into one amazing sentence. The first half is, 'Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling'- which looks as if everything depended on us and our good actions: but the second half goes on, 'For it is God who worketh in you'- which looks as if God did everything and we nothing. I am afraid that is the sort of thing we come up against in Christianity. I am puzzled, but I am not surprised. You see, we are now trying to understand, and to separate into watertight compartments, what exactly God does and what man does when God and man are working together. And, of course, we begin by thinking it is like two men working together, so that you could say, 'He did this bit and I did that.' But this way of thinking breaks down. God is not like that. He is inside you as well as outside: even if we could understand who did what, I do not think human language could properly express it. In the attempt to express it different Churches say different things. But you will find that even those who insist most strongly on the importance of good actions tell you need Faith; and even those who insist most strongly on Faith tell you to do good actions. At any rate that is as far as I can go.

    I think all Christians would agree with me if I said that though Christianity seems at the first to be all about morality, all about duties and rules and guilt and virtue, yet it leads you on, out of all that, into something beyond. One has a glimpse of a country where they do not talk of those things, except perhaps as a joke. Every one there is filled full with what we should call goodness as a mirror is filled with light. But they do not call it goodness. They do not call it anything. They are not thinking of it. They are too busy looking at the source from which it comes. But this is near the stage where the road passes over the rim of our world. No one's eyes can see very far beyond that: lots of people's eyes can see further than mine.

    Hope this helps.
  • mannanmannan
    Thank you so much. This is what I needed. I would really appreciate more information.
  • mannanmannan
    Does any body have anymore information??? ??? ??? ???

    I would really appreciate it....

    I already have Pope Shenouda's book about Salvation.
  • PopeKyrillosPopeKyrillos
    Are you looking for free online articles or are you looking for books you can buy or either?

    PK
  • mannanmannan
    Anything. But I would really prefer English books and articles.
  • mannanmannan
    Please.....................
  • PopeKyrillosPopeKyrillos
    Read

    Salvation in the Orthodox Concept by H.H. Pope Shenouda

    Here is a little article that you might like.
    http://www.suscopts.org/stgeorgetampa/salvation_in_the_orthodox_2.htm

    PK
  • mannanmannan
    Thanks for the information It is mostly the same as i already have.
  • clayclay
    I just want to make a little digression, before I ask what needs clarity. I suppose that concepts such as "Works" and "salvation" can never really be elucidated, and perhaps, if we were humble enough, we can sort of appreciate the deviations and divisions on this often sore subject. The reason these concepts are so peculiar-so often misunderstood, is I think in the nature behind these summitry terms. What we are often trying to describe is the end-product of a personal relationship, with a God that we have no perfect comparison in our lives, and must be truly experienced. Relationships do not really follow logic- you can't really treat like a scientific law, a drug interaction, e.t.c. We are out of our league, and yet, Christianity once and for-all preached by the Apostles tells us what Works and Salvation is not. Works is an imperative, and we must struggle, and yet, it is not I who does it but God who fights. And we live as though we were Saved, and even profess it, and yet, we are not Saved until we have ran the good race by the grace of God. I suppose the contradictions are a result of us not understanding the dynamics and the roles the relationship that supports and strengthens us, and allows us to do good works and have Salvation. And when we understand that we are talking about a personal relationship, then it is only logical that unless we don't live it and experience it, all is academic- all is baffling. God's wisdom is like that- it is foolishness, unless you have faith.
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