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Meet and Right; Right and Worthy

clayclay
edited December 1969 in Hymns Discussion
Only now do I realise the audacity of saying "Worthy", and appreciate how proper is "Meet and Right". How can this be more adopted by the English Churches?

Does anyone have a defence of either phrase?

Comments

  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    The use of "Meet and Right", I believe was first used in the translation by the reposed Dr. Fayek Ishak of Canada.  He was the Editor in Chief of "Coptologia" and translated many works of the Coptic Church.

    In regard to "Worthy and Just" it was popularized by "the brown book" translation of the Liturgy of St. Basil by the Coptic Church in Detroit in the 80's.  It caught on because it was easier relative to the modern vernacular.

    Personally, I like "Meet and Right" and the stronger meanings in the rendering.

    The "official english translation" that was done in committee in Egypt was undertaken in less than two weeks.  There was not one person in session that had English as a first language/or mother tongue.  If you follow the language, you may realize the disjointed aspect from which it was compiled.  I personally criticize it tremendously as a major mistake.  There was no scholarly approach whatsoever.  I know of one priest who was a member as one of the main advisors who left the proceedings after four days when he realized the futile nature of things.

    I hope this has been informative.

    BTW I appreciate your very well-reasoned replies and posts.  They are quite human and humane.  The certainly offer food for thought.
  • LifeinChristLifeinChrist
    Meet and right, what does it mean?
  • Amoussa01
    [quote author=His Servant link=topic=6164.msg81818#msg81818 date=1202166606]
    Meet and right, what does it mean?


    I think this is exactly why it has been changed to "Worthy and Right."

    GB
    Tony
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    i haven't seen any recent liturgical book that says Worthy and Right, all say Meet and Right which as others have said is much better translation and much more powerful
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=Amoussa01 link=topic=6164.msg81819#msg81819 date=1202166786]
    [quote author=His Servant link=topic=6164.msg81818#msg81818 date=1202166606]
    Meet and right, what does it mean?


    I think this is exactly why it has been changed to "Worthy and Right."

    GB
    Tony


    meet means fitting
  • KrazyLionKrazyLion
    look at it in context... meet and right that we praise you bless you ...

    i think this part of the liturgy is now reconciling with God...
    first you reconcile with other as it says in matthew 5 (leave your gift at the alter go make up with your brother than come back) than you reconcile with God by offering him praise

    im pretty sure of this.. someone should comment on it and correct me if im wrong tho


    but yea back to orginal question  i agree with whoever said before that meet and right have a stronger meaning that worthy and just....

    just... is such a loose word.... but i guess you can still use it ... who am i to outlaw it?


    ok bye....
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    That is the beginning of the Anaphora not the prayer of Reconcilliation
  • SeverusSeverus
    [quote author=jydeacon link=topic=6164.msg81852#msg81852 date=1202181417]
    That is the beginning of the Anaphora not the prayer of Reconcilliation


    Isn't the beginning of the Anaphora 'The Lord be with you all'? Meet and Right comes just a bit later.

    The beginning of the Prayer of Reconciliation is a 'Shleel' followed by 'O God the Great...'

    As for the issue at hand, I prefer Meet and Right...but my church does Worthy and Just.
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    your right it does start with the Lord be with you all what i meant was it was part of the anaphora, sorry for not being clear
  • KrazyLionKrazyLion
    lol than guess not..
  • ZakharyZakhary
    I feel like the phrase "worthy and just" is good in the Basilian Liturgy, but it really does not make sense when used in the Gregorian liturgy.  I wish English-speaking priests would make their minds!!
  • PopeKyrillosPopeKyrillos
    In my opinion, worthy and right makes more sense. The only reason for that is because in arabic it's said "mostahikon" meaning worthy And "mostawgibon" which could mean just or right. I think it's a mistranslation carried on by new books following the old books. Also, in french it's Digne which means worthy in english. These simple words have direct translations in all languages so I don't understand why we have problems when translating.
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