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Ranks of Deaconship

mike_henainmike_henain
edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
Well I was wondering about how our Church has lots of epsaltos and oghnostos yet very few deakons, any input??


Mike
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Comments

  • PaulhPaulh
    not necessarily true. just very few deacons of our age group. But its because you have to be at least 30-sum years old to be ordained a deacon (i think thats the right age..not positive). But of course if you have the maturaty and knowlegde, then you will be ordained earlier. But there are many subdeacons and deacons out there...its just that there are many more epsaltos. hope that helped...
  • mike_henainmike_henain
    But in my Church we have people that are 80 years old yet they are still EPSALTOS, and we have only ONE deakon in our Church....


    Mike
  • PaulhPaulh
    If they are able to understand and explain the bible to others, THEN they will be ordained oghnostos. but if they don't know how to do that, then they'll stay epsaltos.
  • Abanoub88Abanoub88
    There's much more to being a epi-deakon and deakon than meets the eye. They are a very spiritually-in-tune, select people, who are called to this work. Not very many will be able to handle such a job. To be a Deakon is to be a leader wherever you go - you will always be expected to be able to perform perfectly. It is for this reason that you must be of age and very spiritually mature to even start considering Deakon - maybe that is why there is epi-deakon. I guess you get some of the feeling of a Deakon's duties when you're one in training (i.e. epi-deakon).

    Your mercies O My Lord, I will praise: forever and ever: and from generation to generation: I will declare Your truth with my mouth.

    - Chris
  • mike_henainmike_henain
    I agree Banoub, however, no offence but the Deakon in our Church does NOT show any leadership skills, and I'm not being judgementel because the whole Church would agree with me, and also Paulh, I also agree with you but some people are ordained anaghnoustos when they are 7 years old.....and I don't think they can even read.


    Mike
  • Abanoub88Abanoub88
    lol. Not all people are ordained Deakons for their spirituality - there could be many political, hidden reasons too. lol.

    and for that ordaination to occur of the 7 year old....which Bishop did that? That is impossible to have them ordained. Oghonostos means 'Reader'. What bishop would allow such a thing?

    - Chris
  • mike_henainmike_henain
    Buddy, my best friend was 7 and they were ordaining some Anaghnoustos and: "Yalla hatoo howa kaman bel mara" happenend and POOF he's an Oghnoustos...

    Also please elaborate: politics?? LOL!


    Mike




  • Abanoub88Abanoub88
    oh see...he wasn't ordained because of his knowledge, or ability to read...it was just the usually Egyptian hurriedness in getting things done all at once that allowed for that to happen. It shouldn't have though.

    lol. Politics: I meant that some are ordained to high ranks because they know someone, or have told someone with "power" (I use this term loosely here) that they want to become a priest.

    Truly He rose, and the soldiers were not aware: that truly, the Savior of the world has risen: He who suffered and died for our sake. O Lord, glory be to You. Amen.

    - Chris
  • mike_henainmike_henain
    HaHa, lol, I know what you mean...

    Good stuff, Chris!

    ;)

    Mike
  • G.J.IG.J.I
    im Oghnoustos...

    ive been deacon ever since i was 3, i didnt really appreicate wat bein a deacon was until i was about 12, now im obseesed with it, and church, and elhan, i love it...
    its got to a stage were the highlight of my wel is goin to church, i look forward to it, its my wilderness...
    how but u guys?
  • ASMASM
    Maybe its just me, but this is way over my head... whats the difference betweenthem all, i mean what makes someone a Epi-deakon and not deacon? and so on... maybe we have different names for them, chanters ect. but im still not sure what role each 'position' plays! (sorry if this is a 'dumb' question) ??? ???


    ASM
  • mike_henainmike_henain
    [quote author=G.J.I link=board=1;threadid=439;start=0#msg6528 date=1089425791]
    im Oghnoustos...

    ive been deacon ever since i was 3, i didnt really appreicate wat bein a deacon was until i was about 12, now im obseesed with it, and church, and elhan, i love it...
    its got to a stage were the highlight of my wel is goin to church, i look forward to it, its my wilderness...
    how but u guys?



    SEE WHAT I MEAN!!! AN ANAGHNOUSTOS AT THE AGE OF 3!!!

    Lol, well God Bless, God Bless....

    Maybe its just me, but this is way over my head... whats the difference betweenthem all, i mean what makes someone a Epi-deakon and not deacon? and so on... maybe we have different names for them, chanters ect. but im still not sure what role each 'position' plays! (sorry if this is a 'dumb' question)


    ASM


    Ok this is what's supposed to happen if we had a balance amount of each rank...

    Epsaltos ----> is supposed to sing because Epsaltos means: "singer", he stands out of the Altar and leads the people in singing.

    Anaghnoustos ------> means "reader" and what he is supposed to do is read the Bible and chant it, also he must understand it and explain it...

    Epi-Deakon -------> means "helper of a deacon, or sub-deacon" and what he does is assisting a deacon, like giving him the Shoria and all that also maybe folding stuff and lighting up candles

    Deakon ------> means deacon (I'm SURE about this one..lol) and he's a leader in his people and is completely about Church stuff also he has a good relationship with God, what he does is that he serves in the Altar and also on certain occasions gives out the Holy Blood.

    Archdeakon ------> Head of deakons..




  • ASMASM
    icic... i assume they are all dressed the same, no real way of telling them apart... cuz to me they all look the same sound the same. Do the same jobs, but maybe im not paying enough attention!!

    Thanx for ur quick response, or i woulds pondered this one for a while!


    ASM
  • mike_henainmike_henain

    LOL, no problem,


    Ok just like I said, unfortunately the ranks now are not really as they are in North America, however in Egypt you DO notice.

    This is the Deacon wear:

    Epsaltos: White tunic with Crosses on borders, back and front..

    Anaghnoustos: White tunic with the Batrashel at a shape of a Cross on the back...(Estefanos)

    Epi-Deakon---> White tunic with Batrashel on his RIGHt shoulder

    Deakon -----> White tunic with a Batrashel on his LEFT shoulder..
    and sometimes a Crown-like on his head, also sometimes wears a black galabeya and a Cross AND a belt in normal days

    ArshDeakon ------> White tunic with Batrashel on his left shoulder and the Crown-like on his head and should wear a galabeya (black) and a Cross AND a belt in normal days (out of Church)


  • ASMASM
    Well now im gonna have to goto church and check out what the deacons are wearing... for ugg the threads sake... even though some of those words u used were a tad bit technical for me :)

    But thanx again for enlightening me, i learn something new everyday!

    ASM
  • mike_henainmike_henain
    LOl, no problem...


    Mike
  • G.J.IG.J.I
    bbby i said i was deacon at the age of three, i meant Epsaltos, i was Anaghnoustos since 12
  • mike_henainmike_henain
    Oh nice, how were u ordained Oghnoustos, oh btw, my youth are trying to convince Abouna to ordain Ognoustosos in October Ensha2 Allah...


    God Bless!

    Mike
  • G.J.IG.J.I
    bish moussa bish of the youth came to my church, cut my hair gave words of wisdom...etc pretty kool.
    wat rank were u?
  • mike_henainmike_henain
    I'm Epsaltos....and PROUD,

    hey just a quick question, who voted hegumen coz if no1 did then there's a hegumen reading our threads and that's pretty cool...


    Mike
  • nardinnardin
    ::)yes i wonder na hi guys nice to meet you's i am a hegumen sorry did i tell you that before


    God Bless
    F.R.O.G.
  • G.J.IG.J.I
    hey is great to meet u, im guessing by ur name that ur a female, also clickd on ur profile, i didnt know there was such a thing as a female hegumen
  • Unknown
    Hi all,
    This is the first time I have posted here at Tasbeha.org, bit like a 'long time listener, first time caller' hehe.

    Here in Sydney, although it is also hard to figure out ranks, It's not always followed. I am epsaltos and still can lead the mass, read the readings and gospel, am chosen to serve the altar assist Abouna in all his rituals etc etc etc, apart from Deakon and Arch- Deakon in G.J.I's post I can safely say that I can and do do everything in those descriptions. We must also remember that to be ordained a higher rank we must also have permission or selection from our Father of Confession! It is crucial that his opinion is taken as he is truely the only one who can tell of our Spirituality.
  • Abanoub88Abanoub88
    Jono,
    Welcome to the Forums.

    That's a very interesting point. We over in the US have similar situations. Like I posted in some other topic, our churches all have different regulations for this kinda thing. I know in CA (don't ask which part, I don't live there lol) the ranks of deacons can be easily distinguished, as well as their duties. I also know that some states in the Southeast of the US also follow strict ranks, etc. So it's up to each church on what their deacons can and can't do, and if their church will follow the set 'guidelines' as to proper wear of the tonya and batrashel, etc.

    "I and my father are one." (John 10:30)

    - Chris
  • G.J.IG.J.I
    i can neva put on my batrashel on my own... does any1 share me clumsiness or its just me,
    it probably just me, it usually is..
  • Abanoub88Abanoub88
    lol. u've been putting it on for 4 years and u still can't get it?

    lol. I can get mine on, I usually need help straightening it on the back though, it usually tangles up.

    even the 50 and 60 year olds in my church need help to put it on. lol.

    Your Body and Your Blood: are for the forgiveness of our sins: with the New Covenant: which You gave to Your disciples.

    - Chris
  • wfhanna1wfhanna1
    well it depends which form of the batrashel you put on like the cross one is a bit complicated but there is a trick to it ( i don't remember excatly what is the trick my bad ;D) but the acrros the body one is kinda easy
  • Abanoub88Abanoub88
    Yes, the one across the chest is much easier. But the cross-type batrashel...the trick is to put one end of the batrashel draped over your right shoulder, letting the edge of it nearly touch the ground, then complete it. That's how I do it, so it only needs a little adjustment in the end.

    May He bless us all: purify our hearts: and heal the sicknesses: of our souls and our bodies.

    - Chris
  • wfhanna1wfhanna1
    yep that is the trick i haven't done it for a while so i forgot it ;D
  • Abanoub88Abanoub88
    Doesn't this discussion belong under "Coptic Orthodox Church"?
    Guys, before you post your first question in a new thread, make sure you're putting it in the right category. Thanks. ;)

    Abundant are all your wonders: and precious is your glory: O you who are the pride of all virgins: Mary the beautiful dove.

    - Chris
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