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Is it called Mass or Litugry?!?!?!?

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  • mtanious32mtanious32
    Thank you Iqbal for your response, they are always so clear and they make sense...lol...are you like a deacon or something like that...im just wondering because you have so much knowlegde? But i have a question today in Sunday School my sunday school teacher says that mass means that its a gathering of people in one place while liturgy is the wokr of the people...I'm a person who believes in using the term mass and liturgy interchangebaly but would that have an affect on which term to use?
  • Gods kidGods kid
    [quote author=Iqbal link=board=1;threadid=3841;start=30#msg54726 date=1147606481]

    You also have to remember mtanious32 that it says "Pray for perfect peace, love and the Holy Catholic and Apostolic ORTHODOX church of God" there are different Catholic churches!

    No. There is in fact ONE Catholic Church, and that is our Church. The term Catholic is simply a translation of the Greek word katholikos which literally denotes the whole/entire/universal Church. According to our faith, the Orthodox Church (Coptic + Armenian + Ethiopian + Syrian + Indian + Eritrean) is the One and Only Church, and hence it represents the Universal Church.

    Whilst the Roman Church lays claim to being the Catholic Church, it certainly is not. As such, it is always appropriate to refer to the Latin Church as the Roman Catholic Church, rather than with the open-blanket "Catholic Church" title. The former may imply, according to the qualification in question, that the Universality of the Latin Church is restricted to the jurisdiction under Rome, which is in fact in schism, rather than being of the genuine Catholic Church.


    When using catholic to mean universal, wouldn't you use a LOWERCASE "c" , and an uppercase "C" in Catholic when referring to the Roman Catholic Church?
  • Christ4LifeChrist4Life
    No because its part of the title Apostolic Coptic Orthodox Church. Just like we capitalize apostolic, orthodox, and church, so you also underline catholic.
  • Unknown
    [quote author=Iqbal link=board=1;threadid=3841;start=15#msg54725 date=1147605807]
    Coptic Servant,

    Liturgy is the form your supposed to say, because first off, there are 3 liturgies, correct?

    We don't have "three Liturgies"; we have three Eucharistic Liturgical Rites (in fact we have four if you consider the British Orthodox Church).

    I already explained to you that technically speaking, the term liturgy is a general term referring to all Church services. It refers to vespers, matins, the baptismal service, the marriage service, and just about any other Church service. This is a basic fact you will discover upon reading just about any basic history book on Orthodox worship.

    I'm guessing all they have in the Catholic church is 1 mass

    I already explained to you that the term Mass is simply a latin term generally denoting the Eucharistic Liturgy, so your above statement doesn't make sense. If you are referring to Eucharistic Liturgical Rites, you will find that the Latin Church in fact has much more than us.

    Liturgy is the proper way of saying mass

    First of all, as I already explained to you, the terms Liturgy and Mass are not synonymous. Liturgy is more general than the term Mass. Technically speaking, "Eucharistic Liturgy" would be synonymous to the term Mass. The former may be more appropriate in reference to Orthodox worship in consideration of the fact that our Church does not use Latin whilst the term Mass is Latin and taken from the Latin dismissal of the Eucharistic Liturgy. But since there is nothing inherently wrong with Latin per se, its merely an issue of using terms that better fit the cultural context of each Church.


    Thanks for explaining that Iqbal, sorry I didn't understand quite well of the backround of Eucharistic Liturgy, I never knew there was such a thing, but do they have Eucharistic Liturgy anywhere else besides the Orthodox Church, I know they have body and blood, but I saw Catholic masses on tv, and it's very odd, I mean men and women aren't separated, so is that partially correct, that we are(Orthodox) the only that have Eucharist! Or is it just different, anyone care to explain!

    Forever,
    Coptic Servent
  • mtanious32mtanious32
    Well, I saw the Catholics get Wafers-representing the Body, and their chalice with the Wine-representing the blood
  • Unknown
    mtanious,

    I'm a person who believes in using the term mass and liturgy interchangebaly but would that have an affect on which term to use?

    What I have attempted to establish is that the term Liturgy and the term Mass, as they are commonly and contemporarily employed, refer to the same concept i.e. the Eucharistic Liturgy. With respect to which one you should personally employ in casual speech or conversation when wishing to speak of the Orthodox Eucharistic Liturgy, it is best to employ the term Liturgy for the following reasons:

    1) If you make an open blanket statement such as "I am going to the Mass", or "I attend the Mass every Sunday", you may be implying that you attend the Eucharistic Liturgy of the Roman Catholic Church, since in the end, the term itself is Latin and taken from the Latin dismissal of the Latin Rite Eucharistic Liturgy. So its preferable to just stick with "Liturgy" and to get used to it for your own personal use, for the sake of convenience.

    2) The term Liturgy itself denotes a fundamental aspect of the Eucharistic service; the fact it is a public work. The term Mass doesn't really mean anything, it is simply taken from the formula of the dismissal at the end of the Latin Eucharistic Liturgy.

    Keep in mind however, as I have stated many times already, that technically speaking, the term Liturgy refers to all services. It is just in modern days that the term Liturgy has automatically been equated with the Eucharistic Liturgy.
  • Unknown
    Coptic servant,

    but do they have Eucharistic Liturgy anywhere else besides the Orthodox Church, I know they have body and blood

    The Eucharistic Liturgy is simply the service pertinent to the Sacrament of the Eucharist (i.e. the Body and Blood of Christ). In this sense, the Roman Catholics do have a Eucharistic Liturgy, since they affirm the sacrament of the Eucharist and celebrate it in a service that has now become known within the Latin Rite as the Mass.

    and it's very odd, I mean men and women aren't separated,

    Many of the differing customs and rituals may be considered odd, but that doesn't mean they're necessarily wrong. Some Orthodox churches (I believe the Armenians retain this practise) for example do not even have pews, yet our parishes are replete with pews. The Ethiopians use drums, the Indians don't have an iconstasis etc. etc. I could go on forever. One shouldn't make an issue out of liturgical differences simply because they are different per se. They should understand the nature of such differences and whether or not their implications or consequences are significant enough to warrant complaint.
  • lildude30894lildude30894
    lildude30894:

    This forum is not a toy for little kids. Please have some respect for the Church and refrain from abusing this forum any longer with your childish behaviour.

    - Iqbal
    Moderator
  • Unknown
    I don't understand how mass refers to the eucharistic liturgy. Protestants use the word mass to refer to their church service, and they don't have communion every week, and same thing with the Baptists. So, it makes no sense that mass refers to the eucharistic liturgy.
    I was always told that a mass just refers to a group of people gathering together to pray and it didn't always end with communion. Liturgy, on the other hand, always ends with communion and that is why it is more appropriate for us to call it liturgy.
  • Unknown
    eskala23,

    Protestants use the word mass to refer to their church service, and they don't have communion every week

    The only Protestants that appropriately use the term Mass, are the Anglicans and Lutherans, who, like the Roman Catholics, use the term in reference to their Eucharistic Liturgy.

    So, it makes no sense that mass refers to the eucharistic liturgy.

    It makes perfect sense, because it’s a fact.

    I was always told that a mass just refers to a group of people gathering

    I don’t care what you were told. Why is it that most people on this forum treat the forum as opinion/conjecture paradise where they can just post “what they feel/think” or “what they were told”. Fact: the term mass is taken from the Latin term missa employed in the dismissal of the Latin rite Eucharistic Liturgy (and which in fact means dismissal). This a Fact. If you want to dispute it, bring forth credible and accessible evidence.

    Liturgy, on the other hand, always ends with communion

    No it doesn't always end with communion. That is the point why technically speaking, the unqualified term Liturgy is not the best term to use with respect to exclusive identification of the Eucharistic Liturgy. I’m not going to repeat my explanation of the term Liturgy for the hundredth time. Please take the time to read my above posts.
  • mtanious32mtanious32
    Iqbal....biswish
    this is the last thing i want...i just want written proof that Mass-refers to the eucharist per se, where did you get your information?....Thanks:-)
  • Unknown

    i just want written proof that Mass-refers to the eucharist per se, where did you get your information?.

    The Cathechism of the Roman Catholic Church:

    II. WHAT IS THIS SACRAMENT CALLED?

    ...

    1332 Holy Mass (Missa), because the liturgy in which the mystery of salvation is accomplished concludes with the sending forth (missio) of the faithful, so that they may fulfill God's will in their daily lives.

    Source: http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/euch1.html

  • mtanious32mtanious32
    thank you very much
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