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what would u prefer
i dont know because i don feel really like praying/praising when i say things in coptic BCOZ i don understand it so what do u think???
Comments
Forever,
Coptic Servent
But if you don't understand it, I suppose it would be better to sing something you understand..but meaning can be sought easily now..coptic is translated as well as arabic so if something is beautiful, we can learn the meaning and continue to sing it..
love lots,
CopticChica21
i cant say that coptic is so amazing and emotional but we cant pray the entire mass and all otha prayers in coptic ppl'd feel misrable when they dont understand coz not all ppl can meditate on the tunes on their own they need to know the words.
what do u guys think???
Forever,
Coptic Servent
love lots,
CopticChica21
(sorry for the long post) :-[
GBU
sandra
http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=60;start=msg202#msg202
the coptic language is a very lovely language
i understand your frustration and malcontent at not understanding as you pray or praise in the Church, especially during the liturgy, which usually has a lot of coptic hymns.
But have you thought of learning coptic, naturally starting with trying to read it so you can get used to the letters, then word definitions, then grammatical sentences and then speaking the language.
I am from Australia, and personally know of a family where their main language spoken at home is in Coptic. Of course they know english and arabic, but coptic is instilled into the.
There is also a deacon in egypt who is of Japanese descent who speaks fluent coptic.
I would say shame on us who do not know the coptic language, me being first, but the resources are limited.
However, you can always start by trying to teach yourself or asking someone to teach you how to read coptic and then take it from there.
And just to show you how deep the coptic language is, look at the very simple word
"CHRIST-MAS"
HH Pope Shenouda III gave a small sermon on that word...
we know the word "CHRIST" refers to Jesus the Saviour,
but what of the word "MAS"?
it is a coptic word, meaning birth.
So when you hear the word "CHRISTMAS" remember that your heritage is worldwide and many people dont even know it
rejoice in your heritage and try to learn and understand it
it will also give you a task to do when you have nothing else to do because every second on earth is accountable to God
your brother in Christ
mg
our coptic church is rich wich great heritage and one important one is our coptic hymsn that till this day is preserved.
personaly, i would prefer praying in coptic. am sure not every one would think that way becuz me, am an alhan freak and somtimes i listen to christian song, nothing more.
and really, like it was said before, if you really want to understand the coptic, why not look at the translation. the coptic language now are translated in MANY many laguages.
and also what can be very helpful in churches is to have a projecter in church for the people to follow during services in church. in my church we do that almost in all liturgical services. i know that service is very helpful because the people have the 3 languages in front of them. so if abouna would pray coptic, they would follow in english or arabic. and also in a way (lol) no one would would have a "hega" for us deacons to not to pray in coptic.
As such, in France, Fench should be the worshipping lanaguage, German in Germany, English in North America and Australia, and so on. If there is only one native person who attends the liturgy, we should accomodate him.
We should do away with arabic in the land of immigration. I do not see any value of using it or learning arabic, at least from a religious point of view.
As for Coptic, it is our culture and it has a lot of effect on promoting a sense of identity among the younger generation, but it should be used in moderation. Either extensive effort has to be geared towards teaching the language to Copts, or it should be of limited use. I personally love Coptic and love hymns in Coptic, but I do not want it to become an obstacle in evangelism.
In any case, because most churches use translated material now, whether books or presentations, one can meditate on the words while a hymn is chanted in coptic or arabic.
But I feel bad for new converts and catechumens who suffer from arabic liturgies. Not the apostolic way of doing things.
I dont beleive anybody should be praying in a language they dont understand, just because it 'feels' spiritual.
If we say this then we have no basis on attacking protestant churches which practice speaking in tongues of languages nobody understands.
Read this from corrinthians, speaks about understanding what is said in the church
"So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air...I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say? For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified. ....in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue"
I think it is a shame many of what is said in some services is not even translated in english for others to follow. And personally i dont even feel comfortable following on in a translation, it is a lot better to praise God in the language you actually understand. For those who understand coptic, there is no prob for them, pray in it as much as u want, but also consider the others in the church.
God bless
So my point is unless you really have the passion of attending the liturgy and worshipping Christ...I don't think any language should matter to you. Immigrants have to learn the language of the country they are immigrating to...so why wouldn't you do the same for the sake of Christ. You do it for the sake of a job or for every little thing...why wouldn't you do it for the sake of your spiritual life. ;)
I agree with Stavro,
I dont beleive anybody should be praying in a language they dont understand, just because it 'feels' spiritual.
If we say this then we have no basis on attacking protestant churches which practice speaking in tongues of languages nobody understands.
Read this from corrinthians, speaks about understanding what is said in the church
"So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air...I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say? For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified. ....in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue"
sometimes you just need to let your spirit understand, not your mind. english, arabic, french, exc.. hymns will NEVER be like coptic. the origin in the coptic language will never be replaced. right now yes we try to say everything in english in the tune of coptic but, it's still not the same. well, deacons or people who are responsible for that try to do their best in trenslating everything in the right form. i don't understand coptic, but i can read it and chant it, does that mean i don't pray in litrugy.
like i said before, don't make understanding a big deal cause its not. it's your heart and conscience is what's important. did you read my post from before ?
Stavro, how will you become an obstacle in evangelism if you just learn and pray in your OWN language. we're copts, right?!!. no, don't feel bad for them because trust me when i tell you that somthimes they ENVY us of what we have. and a big part of that is our great heritage of coptic hymns that they don't even understand but their hearts react to them. did you read my post from before ??
I personally love Coptic and think that it should be established firmer in our Churches. If people want to understand Coptic, I tnk that they should find some way of learning it.
They should never, ever do away with Coptic in our Churches.
For Arabic, there are those (elders for example) who only understand Arabic, and their eyes are too weak for them to read.
Rabina yebarek our heritage dayman w'ye3teena baseerah menawarah w'2alb maftoo7 w'mo2men dayman. God bless you guys!
salam :D
sometimes you just need to let your spirit understand,
If thats true then we shouldnt have a problem if people want to speak in tongues in the church and speak heavenly languages that nobody understands. Praising God should not be a selfish act, if you understand it spiritually, not everybody else in the church does and you need to think of them. And how about if a non beleiver walked into the church, how would he know what we are talking about? That is what St Paul is talking about in 1 corrinthians 14.
I do not think praying to God is not a purely emotional and spritual experience, at least it does not start that way, there needs to be a degree of understanding. It is not just about 'feeling' spiritual at least it shouldnt be. It should involve spiritual prayer as well as intellectual understanding.
1 Corinthians 14:15
I will pray with the spirit, and I will also PRAY WITH THE UNDERSTANDING
Psalm 47:7
For God is the King of all the earth; SING PRAISES WITH UNDERSTANDING.
God bless
1st, i can notice some awesome translations for coptic hymns in special versions that u can say them in the same tune as in coptic but it's well hard, it takes much longer and needs some1 who understand both arabic and english very well to be able to do such a hard job
an example of these hymns r like 'mooost' of midnight praise and the 'fathers hymns' said in morning offering i guess and much more which i dont know.
so if any of you think that the liturgy should be prayed in the language u understand, that's fine i guess if u are capable of translating all the coptic hymns with words that fit with the tune and also teaching them to the deacons and chanters in the church otherwise u will be kind of cancelling bits of the mass which means we r going to lose our coptic heritage and start a new organisation or sumthin?
what do u think guys?
God bless
Comparing Coptic to "tongues" is most ridiculous things I have ever heard of. (Pardon me if I have offended you in any way, I in no way mean it). Coptic an ACTUAL language, in fact I know a family whose main language is Coptic. To preserve the heritage of the great and beautiful Coptic Orthodox Church, we must keep Coptic in our churches and must learn it and teach it to our children. If there is any language that truly affects the spirit, it is Coptic. Truly, you don't know what you have until you lose it. I hope that will never have to happen for us to know the true beauty of the COPTIC Church.
If you love the coptic language and tunes, start a coptic language and tunes club (i am not making fun), but do not make it a necessity for people to worship. Even if you want to use it in worship then fine, but why does everybody else in the coptic church have to? The church is not an institution to preserve languages or heritages, it is the congregation of beleivers here on the earth to spread the gospel of Christ and support the Christians in spriritual growth. fair enough, let them have a liturgy in their language (coptic/arabic whatever). But for the english speakers and even more the non-Christians they need an english mass and one that they will feel comfortable with. tongues are ACTUAL languages too (Authenically speking in tongues), they are understood by particular gifted people and angels! (This is biblical)
And no i am not offended
God bless u