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i i see someone cheat should i tell someone?
see subject title///
Comments
Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin. (James 4:17)
habibi what you should do, that is what you need to think of... but something should be done... its funny because people always say God is not fair... but he is fair... he gave you the chance to do your job and do something... but you didn’t... see God does his Job... but we never do ours... habibi... do something... don’t overburden yourself with sin!
As a Christian you are not only responsible for the welfare of your own self, but are altruistically responsible for your neighbor's welfare as well.......this includes the present and future prosperity of the kid who was cheeting. Granted, that being a snitch in the short run seems un-Christian like, in the long run it is essential for your own spirtual growth and the student who is cheeting--it demonstrates the authority of moral precepts within life. In your silence, you are not defending the integrity of the student who has cheeted, you are poignantly defending the immoral act he has commited.
My advice to you is this. The next time you spot your cohort cheeting, discretley notify your teacher of the matter.
God Bless.
Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin. (James 4:17)
That was a good quote but it's talking about doing good. Telling on someone is not doing good! No one likes a rat who tells!
Therefore i disagree, becuase God knows wat's happening. And Bishoy you said "ezay yany forget it!"
I didn't say forget about it...you are praying about it. And prayer is the strongest weapon you can have!
Neverthless, I most certainly do concur with the previous reponse that prayer is a necessity. Whoever you do confront, confront with Christ alongside you.
God Bless.
That is my take on it until I see a better option. And of course needless to say ultimately the decisioin lies on Marmar's hand.
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
The only time that we are allowed to make an exception to this, according to patristic interpretations of this passage, is when the authorities command or compel us to do that which is contrary to Christian morality. First of all, getting kicked out of the school is not the necessary consequence of such an action; it all depends on the context of the situation – what type of exam was it? How important was it? What is the school’s policy on cheating? etc. Furthermore, the context of the situation may in fact be such that there is damage suffered by other students. For example, the test could be scaled such that one’s marks are determined by their rank; in such circumstances, honest hardworking people are being disadvantaged for the sake of the protection of a deceiver. Either way, there is no such thing as irreparable damage – that student will simply go to another school, and hopefully this time he/she would have learned a valuable lesson, and hopefully next time the chance arises to cheat, his/her moral conscious will compel him/her to do the correct and honest thing. The worst crime committed here is not committed against this cheater’s fellow students, nor his/her teacher, nor his/her school, but rather the Almighty God, for such actions are contrary to His moral commandments. The suffering they may incur as a consequence of their immorality, thus need not be necessarily considered damage, revenge or a punishment, but rather a means of chastisement and fruitful discipline that brings that person back on the path of morality from which they strayed.
MarMar,
I think you should simply discern in co-operation with your spiritual adviser what appropriate action to take, in consideration of: the nature and significance of the exam, the consequences to the student in question, the consequences to the other students, the character and personality of the cheater, your relationship to the cheater etc. etc. Unless the full facts are known and discussed, then one simply can’t offer you the best solution. I think ultimately however, you will have to say something regardless, whether it be to the teacher or just to the student, in the manner that is most desirable and appropriate according to the context of the situation.
First, I concur that one should respect the rule of God. But can you back up with evidence that, students in the US have legal obligation to report when they witness students commit deceitful actions. Unless that is the case I do not think the verses that you have pointed out will be a valid premise for this case. By the way, do not get me wrong, I am not trying to defend cheating; it is just that I find it stiff to swallow when I pave the road for punishment of others.
Second, I did not argue that s/he, the cheater, will necessarily be kicked out of school; instead, I pointed that could be a possible ending. And plus I do not think it will have a negative effect on other students whether one has cheated or not; it is only their work that will determine their final grade, that is the case at least as far as I know.
Third, I did not mean to take “irreparable” literally, I just wanted to indicate the degree of the damage that could come out of this. I guess I probably should have used a better word.
And fourth, I agree with you that the crime is committed against God. If you believe that, then don’t you think we should leave it up to God for the punishment too?
In any event, I was actually responding to your comments denying that the authorities of the land are established by God. I never implied that you did. I simply sought to stress the relevant point that the consequences could be a range of things, so we don't need to jump to conclusions. Again, this is all speculation. Anything is possible, which is why I advised marmar to consult her spiritual adviser with all the relevant facts of the situation in order that she may discern with him/her the appropriate method of dealing with it. If other students are in fact disadvantaged, then this is merely further incentive to take action; I don’t believe taking action is contingent upon the truth of it, however. And my point was, that whatever “damage” eventuates, will ultimately be for the benefit of that person if it compels them to take a more honest approach to examination, which will in fact affect their ability to take an honest approach to any and all matters of life. And who is to say that the consequences arising from MarMar's reporting the incident is not God’s intended form of punishment? God allowed MarMar to witness the deception taking place, knowing that her moral conscious would compel her to respond to the situation. Thus, she should, and whatever consequences eventuate from that may be deemed God’s punishment excercised through the instruments of his servant MarMar and the authorities under Him. On the contrary, MarMar should feel guilty if she doesn’t do anything about it, since according to the book of Ezekiel, it is her duty and responsibility to respond to the situation in a manner that at least attempts to rectify his moral flaws, for if “you do not warn [the wrong-doer] or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood.” (Ezekiel 3:18) Taking a dishonest approach to examination may be the root of larger and more serious sins if that person’s conscious isn’t appropriately prompted and re-directed to recognise its wrongness.
My intention is not to rebuttal with you. My retort is merely a defensive response for the original argument propounded. I hope it will help to clarify more then rectify Interestingly, I did not mention MarMar's age nor her grade, specifically because I was uncertain of what grade she was in. Therefore, my argument is not confined to a particular grade or age level. However, the standards of every acedemic setting are usually indicative of preferential precepts held by the instructor, if not the academic establishment's policy. Chances are that MarMar's teacher, if not her school, does not approve of cheating and/or tolerate cheating within the classroom. In this sense there is a judicial standard imposed upon the students; cheating is prohibited--either due to school policy or the immediate authority of the instructor.
There does not have to be a national consensus in regard to the issue of cheating for the act to be intolerable within a classroom. The judiciary potency may be brought about simply through word of mouth on the teacher's part. Furthermore, as Iqbal mentioned, our obligation is ultimately not encircled around the adjudication of society or this country, but consummately in the person of God and His Word. Also as Iqbal demonstrated, the adherence to academic or established policy very much coincides with the teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ and the apostles. Thus, in adherence to academic policy or an instructor's expectations of his students, the Word of God is ultimately fulfilled. Our legal obligation, if not to men, is justly attributed to God.
Granted that what you say regarding the American judicial system may be true, it holds no weight against my overarching argument. My argument revolves around the need to obey God's provisional authority which He Himself, has permitted the leaders of this age to have. When Pontius Pilate threatened Christ of the authority he held over His fate, the response given was "You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.” While the retort was in direct connotation to Pilate's supervisor, it demonstrates the hierarchy of power that God has placed over the nations.
The higher authoritative figure is condemned because he held the greatest authority, second only to God Himself. As command is given by the Almighty over the nations, those who are highest sovereignty on earth may choose to reject or accept that command. God being the greatest of authorities has permitted government officials and men of the law to carry out their judicial tasks for the sake of established order among the nations. Thus, when Israel refuted God's wish for Him to be their sovereign King, He allotted Saul as their appointed leader.....although, Saul was one whom God surely had known would disobey His decrees. Ultimately, Our Lord Himself became subservient under Pilate's command, even though Pilate worked in direct opposition to God's will. We are called to do the same as emulators of the Most High. Your point is well taken, but the argument is not founded on the basis of moral obligation towards men, but towards men's authority established by God. I wholeheartedly understand where your perspective is coming form. The prospect of complete expelling of a student had not struck my mind at the moment of posting my message. I concur with you altruistic empathy for the student. However, you must survey the presuppositions of your argument. You have defined "good" as the consummate expression of physical and material welfare of the individual, although they are the lesser facets to the greater good I was referring to. If you recall, I had mentioned the prospect of spiritual growth in the long run. This concept only makes sense if your presuppositions are faceted around the Christian worldview of ultimate prosperity. Although the act of reporting a student may be disadvantageous for him within the framework of this lifetime, for his eternal existence after death, morality must be established as a predominant token in his life.
The individual who is permitted to feasibly live an un-repudiated amoral lifestyle is much less likely to find any longing for God's mercy, considering that his life is so lucidly tolerated by others. The Biblical excerpts as well as the existential ramparts of many holy men have demonstrated that the need for God is facilitated most profusively during times of distress or languish. C.S. Lewis denoted that in the gaiety of life we hear God's voice as a whisper. Yet, in times of trouble we find God's voice approaching us as a loud trumpet. The Christian's concern for all men is secondarily for their physical and material needs....primarily for their spiritual relationship with God. What I should have delineated was a supplementary means to which the cheating student could come to know God more fervently. True. However the statement was girded around a hypothetical counter-factual possibility. MarMar might have every good intention in keeping a silent countenance. Yet, were she to do so, it would not deter the fact that an immoral act was left unrequited. While the circumstances may opt for a different approach to the situation; not direct contact with the instructor; silence in both action and speech would undoubtedly leave the situation to its own outworkings. Simply because each party may feel at ease within their own consciences--if the act of cheating was an adverdent amoral action--the act is still not justified in the eyes of God. Even if that swift moment of duplicitness had no effect on any of the persons in the classroom, it is a direct violation to the person of Christ; a sin to be reckoned with either in this life or the next. I cannot contend with your experiential accounts of your own past life. Still, as you clearly indicated, you yourself would opt to converse with the cheater to figure out a solution. My argument was that MarMar would only be effective if her course of action revolved around dialogue with either the teacher, student who was cheated on, or the cheater himself. Therefore, I presume you must concur with my reasoning in regard to this point.
While I refute your retort against my argumentation, I do not attempt to refute your conclusion. Discourse with the student who cheated, even to the point of consensus, is very much a conscionable means of fulfilling the Christian responsibility. It would be most reassuring if MarMar was able to talk to the student who cheated and to make compromise with him. I believe this would greatly surpass "ratting" out the student to many extents.
God Bless
As a side note: thankyou MarMar, Nene, Elitew and Christ4life for your enlightening posts and for a refreshing discussion.
Also, thankyou Iqbal for the expedient surveillence of and contribution to the discussion.
God bless.
Christ said “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” So back to telling, if you were to tell wouldn't that be going against the verse? ???
We all sin, so we should take the "plank" from our own eyes before we take the "speck" from our brother's eye.
“He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” We shouldn't "throw a stone" at the individual but rather let the individual know that it is a sin.
That's my thoughts on that :-\
On the contrary, MarMar should feel guilty if she doesn’t do anything about it, since according to the book of Ezekiel, it is her duty and responsibility to respond to the situation in a manner that at least attempts to rectify his moral flaws, for if “you do not warn [the wrong-doer] or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood.” (Ezekiel 3:18) Taking a dishonest approach to examination may be the root of larger and more serious sins if that person’s conscious isn’t appropriately prompted and re-directed to recognise its wrongness. I would say that it should be read in context. Both verses that OfAllNations has brought up are verses relating to unrighteous judgment and condemnation; they both thus target the unholy, unworthy and hypocritical intention of the one so reporting or making an issue about the sins of the other. MarMar’s purpose for reporting the issue, however, would be a righteous purpose i.e. in order that the wrongdoer be repelled from such immoral acts of dishonesty in the future. Her judgment, would thus be, in the words of Christ, a “right judgment” (John 7:24). Such an action should be accompanied by re-assuring thoughts that she is no morally better than this person, and that she too has her own personal sins to work on.
If we interpret the verses that OfAllNations has brought up, in a manner which contradicts the advice that MarMar should report the incident, then we have interpreted such verses inconsistently with other verses within the Scriptures which have been brought up thus far.