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Coptic Christmas

confusedsoulconfusedsoul
edited December 1969 in Personal Issues
hey, ok well Christmas (25th) is coming up and it kinda makes me wonder why Coptic Christmas isn't on the same day? i remember somthing about us sticking with the old calender but can someone explain it to me more?? :)

Comments

  • StVictorStVictor
    Dec 25 is the original Christmas. But because of Pope Gregory (a Catholic Pope), there was a contract made defrentiating the Copts from the Catholic.

    This document made the days in the year equivalent to 365 for the Copts. The number of Days is actually 365.2 days in the year. Because of this, the Coptic calendar is slightly altered.

    During time, the Christmas is changes to January 7th. It will NOT stay January 7 forever. After many years it will increase to January 8th. It is always increasing in a linear matter.

    If you don't believe me, ask your FOC.
  • SafaaSafaa
    StVictor,
    Please, let me correct something you have said,

    The Christendom used to celebrate the day of Glorious Nativity Feast on Kihak 29, at that time the whole world were observing the Julian Calender, which was 366 days.

    During the reign of Pope Gregory, of Roman Catholic Church, the astronomers advised the Pope that there is mistakes in the Julian Calender, the year should be 365.25 days and not 366 and there should be one leap year every four years. They calculated the difference since the birth of the Lord and found that it is 13 days less, so the Pope asked that the calender be corrected and moved back the Nativity Feast 13 days back to be on December 25 . The Western World adopted this calender, Gregorian Calender, and celebrate Christmas on Dec.25.
  • Marianne87Marianne87
    Well I heard that from my abouna...so u guys could correct me if it's wrong...He said that January 7 is just December 25 in the old calendar...meaning it's still December 25 just not on the new calendar..which means there is like 2 weeks between the old and the new one.
  • SafaaSafaa
    Marianne87,
    I do not think so , with my apology to abouna,
    The west follows the new calender since the 15 th century.
  • KBibo8KBibo8

    The Glorious Feast of Nativity:
    7 January? 29 Kiahk? 25 December?
    Written by: Fr. John Ramzy


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    The first Church did not celebrate the birth of Christ. And the actual date of his birth was and still is unknown. The earliest known indication to such a celebration comes in a passing statement by St. Clement of Alexandria who mentions that the Egyptians of his time celebrated the Lord's birth on May 20. At the end of the 3rd century, the Western Churches celebrated it in the winter, and this was only accepted in Rome in the middle of the 4th century.

    Around that time it was agreed by the Church all over the world to celebrate the nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ on 25 December (29 Kiahk in the Coptic calendar), most probably to take the place of a pagan feast that even Christians continued to celebrate until then.

    At that time, and until the sixteenth century, the civil calendar in use the world over was the Julian calendar, introduced by Julius Caesar in the year 46 B.C. This calendar considered the year to be 365.25 days 4 and thus had a leap year every four years, just like the Coptic calendar. Therefore, until the sixteenth century, 25 December coincided with 29 Kiahk, as the date of the celebration of the Lord's nativity.

    Towards the end of the sixteenth century, Pope Gregory XIII of Rome took interest in studying astrology, dates and feasts. He noticed that the vernal equinox, the point at which the sun crosses the equator, making day and night of equal length, starting the spring, used to fall on 21 March (25 Baramhat) around the time of the council of Nicea (A.D. 325) which set the times for the ecclesiastical feasts. The vernal equinox at his time however fell on 11 March.

    After consultation with scientists, he learned that the equinoctial year (or solar year), which is the time the earth takes to revolve around the sun from equinox to equinox, was slightly shorter than the Julian year. It was 365.2422 solar days (approximately 11 minutes and 14 seconds shorter). This makes a difference of a full day every 128.2 years, hence the difference of 10 days in the beginning of spring between the fourth and sixteenth centuries.

    Pope Gregory XIII decreed the following:

    In A.D. 1582, October 5th will be called October 15th.


    The Julian calendar should be shortened by 3 days every 400 years, by making the centenary year a normal 365-day year, not a leap year, except if its number is divisible by 400.

    Thus the year 1600 remained a leap year as usual, while 1700, 1800 and 1900 had only 365 days each and the year 2000 was a leap year of 366 days.


    This new calendar came to be known as the Gregorian calendar, and is the common civil calendar in use in our world today.


    Following these decrees, as the Church of Rome celebrated Christmas 25 December 1582 A.D., the Eastern Churches still fasted as they showed 15 December or 19 Kiyahk on their Julian and Coptic calendars. As the Church of the East celebrated the feast of Nativity, it was already 4 January 1583 A.D. on Pope Gregory's new calendar. That gap widened by 3 more days over the next 4 centuries. This is why the Churches who still celebrate on 25 December according to the ancient Julian calendar (such as most of the Byzantine Churches and the non-Chalcedonian churches, except the Armenians) find themselves, in the 21st century, celebrating the Nativity on 7 January of the civil Gregorian new calendar. This will become 8 January after the year 2100 A.D.


    Now the questions present themselves:


    Is it necessary that the liturgical calendar be adjusted to a scientifically correct solar year?


    Why did Pope Gregory correct the calendar to its status at the fourth century?

    Why not we do it to resemble the status at Christ's birth or at the beginning of the world?


    Should we, as Christians, take the liberty to change a calendar established and recognized by our fathers of the ecumenical councils to be the basis of our liturgical life, just because of mere scientific data?


    Should we adjust our calendar to coincide with the western calendar, or should the Catholics go back to the calendar of the fathers?


    Is it important to have one Nativity day the world over or is it preferable to unite really in doctrine first, and then look at these secondary issues?


    Isn't it better, now that the Western Christmas has been so commercialized and paganized, that we have a separate date where we worship in spirit and in truth, away from the noise, drunkenness, gluttony and immorality of the December Christmas practices? Many of our children and youth, born and raised here, have voiced this opinion.


    May the ever-renewed birth of the Lord of glory in our hearts, every day of every year, be unto our salvation to eternal life. Amen

    This article can be found on this site: http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/coptic_calendar/nativitydate.html
  • confusedsoulconfusedsoul
    [quote author=mnc_hnn link=board=10;threadid=2822;start=0#msg43999 date=1133978191]
    catch on what?


    GBU


    Ok, I guess I wasn't clear enough. I meant I'm starting to understand why we celebrate our Christmas on January 7th.
  • mnc_hnnmnc_hnn
    can u help me?
    i remember i read sumthing about why do we exchange gifts at christmas it said it was a symbol but i cant remebr can some1 tell me where is this thread?
  • PatrickpeterPatrickpeter
    The EO parish that I'm a member of still ueses the old calender so I will be celebrating Christmas this weekend also and wish to exstend a Merry Christmas to everyone and pray for the day when we will totally one once more.

    Please pray for me

    Patrick Peter

    ;D
  • SafaaSafaa
    It is so good to hear from you Patrickpeter, welcome to tasbeha web site!!!

    We are all Orthodoxies and I pray too for the day to come when all Orthodox Churches can gather together around one Eucharist.

    We celebrate on the same day, January 7, which indicate that it is the original date of Glorious Nativity Feast “ Christmas, too is a new name introduced to the feast by the Catholic Church. “ So Catholic changed the date and the name.

  • angel from heavenangel from heaven
    Hey sry this is off subject but i just wanted to wish every one A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!! Hope you all have a great new year and christmas. Well thats all, God bless.

    Always,
    Angel from Heaven
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