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What is the Coptic view towards Jews and Israel?

sammyusasammyusa
edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
Do copts view Israel in a negative or positive light?

Comments

  • emprociousemprocious
    HI

    I think....and if any one has any more iedeas please let's know.

    The jews they were the selected nation of God ..and they will

    belive in jesus christ some day ....so they are away but they wil

    be back some day..

    and on the other hand the bible teach us to love all the people

    and all the nations ...dos
  • sammyusasammyusa
    what about the contemporary state of Israel? do copts seek friendly relations with it ,being that Jews are like them a minority in the region.
  • spr418spr418
    well...if u mean friends with the isreal people, then there is no problem with that we might have muslim friends we can have jewish friends too...people r the same every where!
    i hope i got ur point!
    sandra
  • Unknown
    The Coptic Church is quite neutral to the Jews to be honest; it neither favours nor disfavours a particular people over and above others - it seeks friendly and equal relations with all.

    With respect to the land of Israel specifically, the Church does not take a stance on political or legal issues - it is none of the Church's concern. However, according to our faith, regardless of the Jews' being the chosen people of God, there is no underlying religious reason giving them a claim of right to the land of Israel.

    Peace.
  • sammyusasammyusa
    [quote author=Iqbal link=board=1;threadid=2657;start=0#msg41086 date=1130291260]
    The Coptic Church is quite neutral to the Jews to be honest; it neither favours nor disfavours a particular people over and above others - it seeks friendly and equal relations with all.

    With respect to the land of Israel specifically, the Church does not take a stance on political or legal issues - it is none of the Church's concern. However, according to our faith, regardless of the Jews' being the chosen people of God, there is no underlying religious reason giving them a claim of right to the land of Israel.

    Peace.


    Bus wasn't Jesus and the apostles Jewish?

    and does not the Bible proclaim numerous times that the land of Israel was granted by God to the children of Israel for an everlasting inheritance. Does God change his mind?
  • Unknown

    Bus wasn't Jesus and the apostles Jewish?

    Yes, Jesus was Jewish, and most of His Apostles were; however this is no reason for favorable discrimination towards the Jews. The Judaism preached and practiced by Christ, was a divinely interpreted one that points towards true faith and salvation in Him, and is thus not the Judaism of today’s Jews.

    and does not the Bible proclaim numerous times that the land of Israel was granted by God to the children of Israel for an everlasting inheritance. Does God change his mind?

    This is one of many occasions where God makes a promise in which the fulfillment thereof is contingent upon the satisfaction of a certain condition, which in this case is faithfulness and obedience to God. According to our faith, the Lord Jesus is the Messiah, and therefore those Jews who rejected Christ during and subsequent to His coming and Resurrection, failed this condition; hence, God was not obliged to adhere to His initial promise, for the contract was revoked so to speak.

    Peace.
  • sammyusasammyusa
    [quote author=Iqbal link=board=1;threadid=2657;start=0#msg41089 date=1130299904]

    Bus wasn't Jesus and the apostles Jewish?

    Yes, Jesus was Jewish, and most of His Apostles were; however this is no reason for favorable discrimination towards the Jews. The Judaism preached and practiced by Christ, was a divinely interpreted one that points towards true faith and salvation in Him, and is thus not the Judaism of today’s Jews.

    and does not the Bible proclaim numerous times that the land of Israel was granted by God to the children of Israel for an everlasting inheritance. Does God change his mind?

    This is one of many occasions where God makes a promise in which the fulfillment thereof is contingent upon the satisfaction of a certain condition, which in this case is faithfulness and obedience to God. According to our faith, the Lord Jesus is the Messiah, and therefore those Jews who rejected Christ during and subsequent to His coming and Resurrection, failed this condition; hence, God was not obliged to adhere to His initial promise, for the contract was revoked so to speak.

    Peace.


    The conditions mentioned in the bible say nothing about accepting a messiah. The conditions of keeping the land are contingent upon keeping the laws mentioned in the Bible.

    Besides the Jews should have a historical right as being the only people to establish a sovereign entity on this land since Joshua. untill the destruction of the Temple by the Romans.

    You realize that many Christians disagree with your assesment and wholeheartedly support Israels existence using the Biblical promises mentioned as their source.
  • Unknown

    The conditions mentioned in the bible say nothing about accepting a messiah. The conditions of keeping the land are contingent upon keeping the laws mentioned in the Bible.

    Well, this all comes down to how one interprets the Law. According to Orthodox Christianity (of which the Coptic Church represents), a correct approach to, and understanding of the Law leads and guides one towards Christ, who is the embodiment and fulfillment of the Law itself. Thus, to reject Christ is in effect a rejection of the Law, according to an Orthodox Christian paradigm.

    Besides the Jews should have a historical right as being the only people to establish a sovereign entity on this land since Joshua. untill the destruction of the Temple by the Romans.

    Like I said, the Church does not really concern herself with legal, political, or historical matters that are exclusive to Her. Certain Church authorities may have a say on the matter, but that would purely be an expression of their own personal opinion, rather than a religiously motivated authoritative or dogmatic stance on the issue.

    You realize that many Christians disagree with your assesment and wholeheartedly support Israels existence using the Biblical promises mentioned as their source.

    That is fine; however, you came asking for the Coptic Church’s stance on the issue (which is the Orthodox stance), which as I have implied, generally holds that todays' Jews do not in fact have Biblical support for their cause; however, they may indeed have a number of valid political, legal or historical reasons to support their cause. Such opinion however, possesses no religious or spiritual significance, and hence is at the individual discretion of the believer.

    Peace.
  • sammyusasammyusa
    Many Christians especially the Catholic Church for years could not make sense of Israels rebirth.

    This was not in the script so to speak. How does one -who always believed that Jews were exiled from their land and condemned to live in misery as a punishment for rejecting Jesus- now come to terms with Jews re establishing themselves in their homeland and winning wars in 6 days?

    How can God let that happen?

    What is your take on that.

  • Unknown

    How does one -who always believed that Jews were exiled from their land and condemned to live in misery as a punishment for rejecting Jesus- now come to terms with Jews re establishing themselves in their homeland and winning wars in 6 days?

    Well first of all, I would disagree with the notion that the “Jews were exiled from their land and condemned to live in misery as a punishment for rejecting Jesus”; but rather, I would see it as God letting history take its course in the absence of His support i.e. in the ordinary course of things, the Jews could not have maintained their presence in Israel at the time, nor would they have even been there in the first place; only via divine providence could such things have come to pass, and it was this very divine providence that chose to lift away His helping hand so to speak, in response to His own peoples’ rejection of Him and His Law.

    As such, I would view the present formation of a modern Jewish state in Israel simply as another instance of history taking its course, rather than being a prophetic fulfillment – divine providence has permitted it, as He does with everything according to His divine will, but it does not necessarily mean that He inspired or motivated it in fulfillment of prophecy.

    Peace.
  • sammyusasammyusa
    [quote author=MarMar91 link=board=1;threadid=2657;start=0#msg41087 date=1130291867]
    hey IQBAL, i just wanna be sure cuz i heard different things...
    we are not allowed to go to Israel, rite?


    Is that correct Iqbal?
  • Unknown

    Quote from: MarMar91 on October 25, 2005, 09:57:47 PM

    hey IQBAL, i just wanna be sure cuz i heard different things...
    we are not allowed to go to Israel, rite?


    Is that correct Iqbal?
    The reason I initially avoided this question is because it has absolutely nothing to do with your inquiry i.e. the Coptic Church’s view of Israel or Jews; it is simply an irrelevant distraction.

    But if you must know, there is a Coptic monastery in Israel (deir el sultan) that has been taken from the Copts by the Israeli government and given to the Ethiopians; the monks were forced out of it, and the ancient icons and treasures therein taken away from us. His Holiness Pope Shenouda III issued a declaration that all Copts refrain from visiting Israel, until our monastery and its treasures are returned to us. Again, this has nothing to do with Israel or Jews per se; it is a political issue.

    Peace.
  • kimi1kimi1
    the pope was speaking about this issue about jews etc and even though it is clearly evident that the jews are gods people H.H. pope shenouda highlighted the fact with a verse from the bible a verse we all love
    "BLESSED IS EGYPT MY PEOPLE[b][/the pope said 2 things in relation to this verse which i really liked he said
    1. that we are the blessed people of god
    2. and we are the gods people (egyptians)
    it is clearly eveident through that verse also H.H said it in an interveiw he also said throught these 2 things that are mentioned dat the jews cannot deny it.

    P.S plz pray 4 me

    god bless
  • Unknown
    MarMar91,

    sorry 4 being a distraction

    No, that’s not what I meant at all - I am sorry if you took it this way. I simply meant that since the issue itself was irrelevant to the Coptic perspective of the status of the Jews and their claim of right to Israel, or of the land of Israel itself, that to delve into it would be to distract the real issues at hand.

    You obviously didn’t know that since you were inquiring, so it’s all good.

    Peace.
  • Unknown
    Kimi1,

    Egypt was indeed blessed in that it eventually became Christianised and played a significant role in the Christian world, however this does not elevate our status over and above that of the other nations, and im sure His Holiness never said anything of the sort.

    God is The Lord of all nations; we make no distinctions (although the Jews had (past tense) special status in that they were God's chosen people - the instrument of His revelations to mankind).

    Peace.
  • sammyusasammyusa
    [quote author=kimi1 link=board=1;threadid=2657;start=15#msg41110 date=1130324255]
    the pope was speaking about this issue about jews etc and even though it is clearly evident that the jews are gods people H.H. pope shenouda highlighted the fact with a verse from the bible a verse we all love
    "BLESSED IS EGYPT MY PEOPLE[b][/the pope said 2 things in relation to this verse which i really liked he said
    1. that we are the blessed people of god
    2. and we are the gods people (egyptians)
    it is clearly eveident through that verse also H.H said it in an interveiw he also said throught these 2 things that are mentioned dat the jews cannot deny it.

    P.S plz pray 4 me

    god bless


    This is an interesting prophecy oft cited by both Assyrian revivalists and Jews:

    At that time there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria. The Assyrians will visit Egypt, and the Egyptians will visit Assyria. The Egyptians and Assyrians will worship together. At that time Israel will be the third member of the group, along with Egypt and Assyria, and will be a recipient of blessing in the earth. The Lord who leads armies will pronounce a blessing over the earth, saying, "Blessed be my people, Egypt, and the work of my hands, Assyria, and my special possession, Israel!" (Isaiah 19:23-25).
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