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How to love each others?
Dear coptic friends,
I'm an Egyptian Muslim, and also faithful. I hope my existence here doesn't bother you.
I wish to see improvement in the relations between Muslims and Copts. I wish to see real brotherhood between "Egyptians". How do you think can we acheive this dream? Which political changes we need? I hope to hear opinions.
Thanks
I'm an Egyptian Muslim, and also faithful. I hope my existence here doesn't bother you.
I wish to see improvement in the relations between Muslims and Copts. I wish to see real brotherhood between "Egyptians". How do you think can we acheive this dream? Which political changes we need? I hope to hear opinions.
Thanks
Comments
welcome to the site! it is nice and also intersting having an egyptian muslim here with us.
but before answering your questions!, if you don't mind me asking a couple first?
i just wanna ask basic stuff, like how old are you?, where are you from?, how did u find this site?, and what made you decide to post a topic??
and, NO your exixting is not bothering us.
we learned to love one another, even our enemies,
"love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you." (Mathew 5-44)
now, I hope i didn't bother you with my questions ;D
WELCOME TO THE SITE!
**Smile-God Loves You** :)
Maria
Ahmed how r ya?
welcome to this site and i hope u enjoy it :)
about what i said earlier, i was not trying to offend you in anyway!
mmm... just wanted to make my self CLEAR, cuz i just read what i wrote and it might seem like an offend to you, but i promise it is not, and i don't mean anything with it!
iam actually really glad your sharing your thoughs and opinions with us :-)
waiting for your reply :)
**Smile :) God Loves You**
Welcome to the site! Great to have you on board! ;D Hope you enjoy it as much as we all do here. It's great that you have the incentive to share your thoughts and ideas, about such a great and unanswered question, one of which many of us probably wish we had the answer too, and wish that oneday could become a reality, as that's what our belief teaches us. I also believe that it's not just that our religion says, to love one another, I also think that it's a moral and human thing to want to have. It's great that you have taken the time to think about it, which shows that you would like that love, and peace to be in amoungst Muslim and Christian Egyptians. :)
I don't have a straight out answer to your question, and I wish I did, but I have something to say.
I believe that if we want the world to change, we must change first, and what I mean by that, is that me, as one individual have to change my attitude, and if I want that peace and love, then I must give it first. I want all Christians and Muslims living happily, then I must do just that to any Muslim I meet, no matter how much I've heard or know they may have or will hurt me. I can't be the only one alone to change the world, and change the conflict between both religions, but I believe that I must be the one to start it, if that's what I want.
There has to be a start somewhere, why can't it be me?
I hope I've made a little sense you guys! lol I hope I haven't completely confused you's and gotten you all lost. ;D lol.
But I hope I've made a point, on how I think this could be changed. :)
Lov Maz ;D
SootyCoptic4Life wrote: No problem of course, i'm 21 years old guy from Alexandria. I'm in the last year in the faculty of Engineering. I raised in Saint Marc school, that's why i had many Coptic friends.
How i found this site? I'm interested in "real reform" in Egypt, i don't like our current position. And of course there will not be reform without our brothers the Copts. So i'm always searching the web to understand more on the Coptic demands, etc.... and of course this site was one of the Coptic sites i found.
Why i posted? Because i believe that we should share our opinions, understand each others. Thanks, i'm not here to discuss religion of course. But thanks, i know that the Bible says that. And i also believe that Christianity is a great religion. And that's what our religion teaches us, because we believe that Christianity is also from God. In fact we're the only people (of non Christians) who regard Jesus as holy and guide image. We're the only people who when listen his name must say "peace be upon him". Also, the blessed Mary according to Islam is the "purest woman of the mankind".
Also the Qur'an confirms that "Christians" are the closer people to Muslims and the most people who will love us:
"You will find the people most affectionate to those who believe are those who say, 'We are Christians.' That is because some of them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant." (Surat al-Ma'ida, 82) No no, i'm not offended at all, i'm here to be asked and to ask. ;) Completly agree with you. I think if our govt. failed to make us understand each others, so it's our fault 1st, that we let this happen. If our govt. made us a backward country so it's also our fault. And we'll not change our condition until everyone of us begin by changing himself.
Thanks, i love you all. :)
As of any political changes that we need, I would think including more Chrisitans in the government would be a first move for anything. Other than that, I would actually think leaving the religion out of the "Egyptian" culture or traditions between the people who live in Egypt. I am not saying that we should forget about the religion, because both Christians and Muslims know exactly that religion plays a BIG role in their lives, but I am just saying is that we don't have to talk about religion when we are talking to another individual from another faith...just to let things calm between us.
I hope I made sense....or just a little bit....
and more than anyone...I really wish this could happen between christians and muslims...as we have lived with each other more than decades in the same one country.
Thanks Ahmed for bringing this issue up and welcome to this site...it's really beneficial and ur oponions will bring more diversity to the site.
Thanks and God Bless,
Marianne
i just wanted to let you know, iam really happy we are all having this conversation and THANK YOU for ur respect and understanding!!.. you seem like an open-minded man and thats really awsome!
Maz and Marianne
you guys did made sense.. a really good one too, i totally agree with your opinions ;D
Also, just to add on what u said,
I think we need to start by not judging one another, i mean if we met someone, we should not worry about what relegion they are from, we should not judge them by their relegion.
Relgion is an individual and personal thing for all of us, so why make it a big issue or let it be a major thing in the people we are communicating with?
i mean yes, lots of stuff has been going on worldwise (is that how we say it?lol) but that doesn't mean ALL muslims (or christians) are the way we hear they are
not because we don't share the same relegion, then we don't share anything else, it doesn't go that way, or atleast i beleive it shouldn't be that way!
I really don't want the next generation to be raised among unpeacefully relationships between Muslims and Christians.
It is our turn now to change that and raise our coming children to love one another, and never judge eachother or anyone by their religion!
i hope i got my point thru..lol
sorry if that was long
**Smile :) God Loves You**
you know what i loved about everyone of us in this topic?
that we could of easily unwelcomed Ahmed being among us, cussed him, or ignored him....... but ofcaurse we didn't, and i think thats because all of us here are young and also very mature.. we understand the world better and we do want peace! Unlike if this was mostly old people (like 35 and up), i don't really think they would of took it the way we are taking it now???
I REALLY DO LOVE that in us, and im pretty sure if there was an islam site and one of us went and did like Ahmed, they would WELCOME us too ;)
I LOVE YOU GUYS!
**Smike :) God Love YOu**
Unfortunately... theres a lot of hate between the two which creates hostility and tension that gets passed frmo generation to generation. Inshallah this chain of hate can cease.
As far as will this and can this change from a change in government? Im sorry to say but Naaaaaaaah, i dont think so. This is about personal beliefs people have towards us. I know ur intention is not to get into religion but a lot of hate is there because of that sole reason. I go to school with people of many religions and m close with muslims and Christians and ive had a muslim tell me that even if I am the most peaceful person in the world, my believing in Christianity makes mohammed a liar and therefore nuthing i can do even if I am peaceful can excuse that. My point in bringing this up is to show that this is PERSONAL...and that the goverment cant make muslims and Christians love each other off or even respect one another. Only ones conscience can cause people to embrace one another in love.
Just my personal opinion ya Ahmad...if others disagree gimme sum examples of what the government can do to improve the relations..id be interested in hearing the ideas out there...salaam everyone!
Hey and welcome to this site ahmed... im a little behind, sorry about that! hope u like it.
okay thats it:)
Maria (hope i havent offended)
Well achieving this dream is going to be difficult. There's always going to be someone who is against the opposite sect and stir up trouble. The devil is strong but if we start with improving ourselves, maybe we can influence a widespread change. Hopefully, God grants us the strength to love each other and spread our love. God bless.
The Copts do not have demands, WE HAVE RIGHTS TO OUR COUNTRY EGYPT.Who are you to dare, to ask this question.Go back and study your bloody barberic Islamic history to see where Egypt is today.If the christians ,in Egypt, need a special permit issued by the president, with his personal aproval and permission to fix a leaking toilet in a church building .Hope this answers your intlectual questions.
P.S. Pleaze don't get mad at me aad. :-\
I'm also very glad to see a muslim guy on the site with a very open mind. Ahmed u give a very good image of Islam ;)
Welcome to the site. I hope you didn't get offended by what aad said (aad, that is not a christian way of talking to people. Ahmed didn't say anything wrong, we should respect him)
The questions you pose are important, don't know if this is the proper palce to discuss these things (politics) but this is a discussion forum.
A look thru history would let us understand how we arrived at the situation where we are now. The way we are today didn't happen overnight, it is a result of 1500 years of opression. We also can't expect it to be solved overnight.
I agree with aad on one thing, Copts don't have demands, we have rights. In this day and age, people are more educated and exposed to understanding what freedom and equality are! If you want the short and sweet version of what we think is "fair" lets start with this list:
- Equality in government control (equal number of members or even a percentage representation)
- Equality in rights
- Lefting of the Hamaionic ban where we can exercise our freedom in building churches, etc...
- Changing the egyptian consitution where it is not based on islmic law (or relgion in general) and basing it on the common law (like the US constitution for example)
And that is just the start. What will have to face after that is changing in the mentality that has been altered over the past 1500 yrs.Ahmed, I commend you on your post and I apprciate your open mindedness. I thank you for wondering about this topic and thinking of your Coptic brotheren. While sentiments are great, Please excuse me for being skeptical that these changes will happen, that is why our only hope is in God our savior.
"In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." (John 16:33)
Just my 2 cents!
if were gonna talk openly, then were gonna talk honestly and ideally, we should be able to empathize with each other ...(just a lil defense for aad!)
go take a look at ur bible and see if thats what jesus wants u say,
theres nothing in this discussion that calles for that comment. say what u need to say and thats all , anything extra just means u want a fight.
i think that this site would be soo much cooler if we had nice muslims like u on it.
that way we can actualy get somewhere!
if u want to defend jesus, defend him the RIGHT way!
and to copt4life ur right but theres no defense for the offensive extra details that could have been avoided, if we want to state facts then do just that facts no personal insults
Great question but for us Copts this question has been on our minds for decades and so far we haven't found a solution.
I think that’s due to a couple of reasons: First off is that the Copts in Egypt are not considered as humans with rights, they are considered as second class citizens. How do we solve this problem, well let them be equal to the Muslims. For example if two engineers graduated at the same time and the Copt had a better score and they both applied for the same job afterwards than no doubt the Muslim engineer would get it. There is inequality to the limits. And since the Muslim population out weighs the Copt population than of course no one is going to care.
I mean right now any church in Egypt that is being built or that is built there has to be a mosque not to far down the street. Now why is that? I mean just like the Muslims don't want to hear the liturgy on Sundays I don't want to hear their Friday prayer. But the Copts have to suck it up because there is nothing that is going to happen or even begin to happen, so it’s kind of like a lost cause. How can we fix a problem when no one even acknowledges that there is a problem, and when I mean “we” I’m talking about the government in Egypt.
Another thing is that Copts live a life of fear. I can say when I’m with God I fear no one except my creator but that’s because I live in America and I haven’t lived a day in Egypt were I had to defend my cross. It’s a lot easier said than done. But there are thousands of people that are afraid of wearing their crosses or even getting a cross tattoo because they know they could be in danger if they did. A Muslim woman can wear her veil all day long and the only thing that can be showing can be her eyes and no one would dare say a word, but a Coptic woman can’t wear a cross without getting dirty looks and repulsive remarks. And I actually experienced that when I was in Egypt visiting this summer so I do know what I’m talking about.
There is no way to stop the hatred for Muslims to Copts. We will never live in a world of peace. That’s because the devil is strong and he will always divide and conqueror. However there is a quote that I read from Pope Shenouda III, “Know that your real relative is he who brings you nearer to God.” I believe that, and if by what is happening it makes me stronger in my faith then Muslims are my relatives.
No offence!!! But I'm talking to you with an open heart and mind, and I really hope that what I’m saying doesn't seem offensive to you because you have no hand in what’s happening, you are one of the few Muslims that I respect for his words and not his hatred.
Take care and always be an example Ahmed, we can’t fix the problem but we can fix ourselves and maybe in time that would reflect in the world and we would see a difference.
In His name
i don't think it was nice to jump on AAD like that, i mean i don't agree with the way he expressed his feelings! but still, everyone has their own way of expressing things, maybe he had some bad experience with musilms or something!
WELCOME TO THE SITE AAD, i see ur a newbie ;)... plzz don't get mad at anyone here (Forgive and Forget).. your gonna love this site, its awsome!
PLZZZ, we would still love for you to share ur opinions and thoughs with us.
JoyisGod,
What you said was really GREAT, and absolutley right.. i like the part about christians women are afraid to wear crosses when muslims women have no problem wearing their vail!!... also the church and mosque part ( i've always been soo upset about that), and im sure many christians has been too!... so, Thanks for pointing that out to our dear friend Ahmed ;)
**Smile :) God Loves You**
I hope you find this site benificial as I have found it :)
AAD,
It is important to state your opinion and express your feelings, and that's what the forums are for, however, perhaps precaution should be taken next time to not be so offensive and perhaps cause someone's feelings to get hurt. We all have our moments when we do that, of course including me, but we should all learn to properly state our thoughts without trampling on others'. (sorry AAD if I offended you by saying this, forgive me)
Welcome to the site though, its good to see more and more people joining. I hope you enjoy this forum. Keep posting!
JoyisGod,
I totally support what you're saying and have experienced it a bit, and had close friends experience similar things, when in Egypt over the summer (we live in Canada).
I personally think that even if the governement wanted to do somthing about this and put an effort to do so, no big change will happen because all in all its the citizens who control what happens to the country. Only if the Muslims and Christians agree mutally to live in peace, will we attain peace. However, if one side doesn't change or doesn't want peace, then almost nothing that the government does will attain that.
It's largly up to the people, not government.
Just my 2 cents, hope no one was offended.
Again Ahmed, welcome to the site.
+Take Care and God Bless+
and secondly i SOOO agree with SooteyCopt4Life, you dont know what others have hadta deal with....some of us have losts sisters and brothers ands aunts and uncles because of these issues and it hurts us...and Im sure Ahmad can understand that...
Ahmad, none of us mean to offend you. The fact that you asked such a question means you are aware of the hostility on both sides and this will take time to remove, that is something no one could deny.
In the meantime, we as Copts will try to act as true Christians and be tolerant...
One more thing for Aad and all of us:
[center] "Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you and say all kinds of evil against you for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven".[/center]
May God grant us all patience, Muslims and Christians, alike.
The problem that affects Love is Hate. We hate by judging and rejecting, while we should love and accept. Satan spreads hate wherever he goes and we all, sooner or later, get tempted by his evil.
We judge not looking at our own sins and wrongdoings.
HATE THE SIN, LOVE THE SINNERS.
REJECT SIN, ACCEPT SINNERS. because after all, we're all sinners and no one is to judge one another. But instead of looking at each other with hate, hurt, pain and prejudice, why don't we try to look at each other in a compassionate way, then we'll see that we're not so different after all; we all sin, no one is perfect.
But we must learn that what defines us is not our acts, but how fast we rise after falling.
i hope that helped
GBU
Beautiful message.May God help us live as true christians.We all fall short but YHWH is merciful.Praise His Holy Name!