Death Penalty

mike_henain · June 2004

Sleepy, define *certain* please. And if it is what I'm thinking of, then why?

Epsaltos Michael

Mathitis · June 2004

[quote author=Maramiro link=board=4;threadid=141;start=0#msg524 date=1081192777]
Hi, my name is Mariam, and for a while now i have been wondering about the death penalty. Is it wrong or right? In our church we learn in the Ten Commandments, thou shall not kill. But many people are on death row in the United States and many have already been executed. So is it wrong to punish someone who has killed another? ???

Nowhere in the Bible you will find that it condemns the Death Penalty. You have to be free of sin first to cast the first stone, that's what Jesus told the Jews when they wanted to stone the prositute.

One question,
If somebody "free of sin" for example, does kill the convicted by a capital punishement method, does that go on him as a sin of killing sombody, even though that person killed 168 people before?

Thanks,
Matt

Mathitis · June 2004

[quote author=sleepymusician link=board=4;threadid=141;start=60#msg4507 date=1088053661]
Today I was talking to my mother, and she brought up an interesting point. She was telling me about this guy who just died in prison. He was there because he raped, and murdered 17 kids, and afterwards he ate *certain* body parts. Luckily for him, he was in a state that doesn't have the death penalty, and he went to jail. My mother was upset about that, but I told her how it's not our job to take away people's lives for their mistakes, so she says, but my taxes aren't gonna keep a criminal alive in prison with food and shelter....something to ponder...

sleepy

Here in Canads for example, if you are sent to prison because you killed some children, and the inmates find out, they will kill you. In my humble opinion, I think that that is actually a good method since kids are the future and by killing an innocent kid, what does it prove?

Matt

Michael_Thoma · June 2004

I am not saying the death penalty cannot be used. All I am saying is since we have a viable alternative, life in prison, we should use that. The death penalty is acceptable in countries where there is no other method of punishment that could be properly used to serve justice. In the US we have the resources to keep people in jail without ending their life. I think it is most appropriate to choose life over death. Sort of a full pro-life argument.

Mark423 · June 2004

[quote author=Michael_Thoma link=board=4;threadid=141;start=60#msg4510 date=1088055824]
in the United States, it costs more to execute someone than to keep them in jail for life. Why? because the person is entitled to many appeals to try to get out of dying. Without these appeals, many more people will be wrongly executed ( there are already too many wrongly executed). The cost of life imprisonment is LESS than execution.

I must inform you that this statistic is incorrect!

It is true that in the event a person decides to appeal a numerous amount of times, but do you know how lengthy these times are? It can take well over a year for a person to gain a second court trial. During this time these people are kept in a high security penitentiary that costs up to $250,000 per inmate per year. Did you also know that these people are USUALLY assigned the worst attorney on the face of the earth because they are poor people who come from the streets who murdered somebody and can’t afford to pay for a good attorney? This attorney doesn’t give them the best advice since he/she also has 15 other bum clients to deal with. Did you know you are only permitted to file for appeal 10 days after the sentencing and after those 10 days you can do NOTHING? Often these government assigned attorneys pass this 10 day period and it is too late to file for appeal. Did you also know that these high costs that are spoken of in this fallacy statistic are only in the event the court trials reach high ranking courts such as the supreme and state courts, in most cases they ARNE’T?

So recapitulate these random facts, this statistic that you speak of almost never takes place! IF the person has a good attorney they must pay for it themselves. IF the person doesn’t have a good attorney, which is usually the case, which means taxes have to pay for it, they don’t get the service anyway! This statistic is based on a hypothetical idea. IF one would appeal several times then it would cost more. But nobody does due to the crooked governmental system. Now we can go off onto a tangent of the honesty of our government; but that’s now what we are arguing at the moment; we are arguing the validity of the statement, and this statement is false; it’s cheaper to kill them. If you’re curious, it cost about 80,000 dollars to execute a person by lethal injection. The cost is for the chemicals that are injected into them and things like the final meal… so with the cost it takes to jail one inmate for one year we can execute 4 people. Sounds pretty economical to me…

egyprincess · June 2004

ok, we r not talkin about the money and which is cheaper. we r talkin about if it is religiously right or wrong. Matt made a good point. none of us r sinless to go condemn others no matter what they did.

sleepymusician · June 2004

What I mean by *certain* body parts are, parts that he "preferred" to eat. I'm not going into detail becasue this is just sick, but I also wanna add that the guy WAS killed by his inmates when they found out what he did.

sleepy

Abanoub88 · June 2004

Here was the verse I was looking for before:

Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword (Mat. 26:52).

sleepymusician · June 2004

But why should we be the ones to make that decision?

sleepy

Abanoub88 · June 2004

And another few verses that relate:

1 Peter Ch. 3

13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance [regulation] of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme:

14 or unto the governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousess, but as the servants of God.

17 Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour [respect] the king.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good? (1 Peter 3:13)

- Chris

Michael_Thoma · June 2004

The statistic is not incorrect because in the federal and states appeals system the convict is entitled to AUTOMATIC appeals because he is facing a death sentence. Your argument that they get crappy lawyers is a reason to bann it not support it. Also, that $80,000 is also wrong because convicts do not get executed the day after they are found guilty, they spend years in jail. In Illinois, John Wayne Gacy spent 14 years in the state penn before his execution. Which, BTW went wrong and he suffocated to death when one injection misfired. In the United States, I Cannot support putting anyone to death in MY name...

mike_henain · June 2004

Neither would I, because I do feel they are taking matters into their own hands, because we were all sentenced to death but Christ had mercy and saved us, well can't these people have mercy too.

Epsaltos Michael

sleepymusician · January 2005

I used to be against the death penalty, and then I somewhat agreed to it, but now, after what's happened to Sylvia and her family, I want the criminals to be caught and they be tried to the fullest extent of the law. I want them to have the death penalty, no exceptions. I know this is un christianlike to say this, but I'm in grief, and I really want the criminals to be found, according to God's will, and tried with the Death penalty.

sleepy

SaviourOfMySoul · January 2005

hey, wow hard question the way i see it, i think its ten times worse for the person to live his life in jail, i mean there is nothing in jail its like they are practicaly dead only breathing and moving and occasionaly talking, these people who are in jail have no hope, most of the time their appeal is turned down and they remain in prison for life, if u have ever seen a prison u would understand its a dark clod place, and trust me these people truly have no hope, so its tourture to be locked up till the end of your days rarely seeing the outside world, and trappen within the confines of the federal jail, its a hard life, but they chose it. and again we must not judge does not everyone have the chance to change? and does not God forgive those who sin? why should we condem them to death we have no right to take someones life...at least in my opponion, of course the person who took anothers life didnt have that right either, but they do ahve the chance to repent and ask God for forgivness! so deathpenalty no but life in prison is fair trade!

May God enlightne us and fill our hearts with peace and love! Amen

Maria

Christi_03 · January 2005

prisions, as far as i kno, are not that bad....
i hear that some jails have like cable tv and make a great habitat! as well.... i heard you can get an education for FREE while in prision! (homolka [or however its spelled] got her law degree while she was in prision)... and who pays all this? us taxed ppl! (or rather, mama and baba lol)
i dont think prision for life would be as bad as ppl think.... just my opinion thought....
as for capital punishment............... no comment on that lol

take care and God bless!

mmatt95 · January 2005

hm, tough situation indeed...

i think we shouldn't wish death penalty for the murderers (read butchers) but a long life staying in jail is a good alternative...
we wouldn't want them to die while they didnt repent yet, even though i think we all feel that that is what they deserve :-\

remember how Arianus killed and tortured many many christians in Alexandria and the rest of Egypt, and in the end he repented and was martyred in the Name of Christ, just an example to think about...

sleepymusician · January 2005

I've heard that the prisons now really are pretty godo for prisoners. A nice place for them to live. Why give them that pleasure? Also, if they really repent, then they will confess to having done it and come forth, not hide and be cowards about it. I still feel determined about that death penalty thing though, sorry, I'm hard to sway.

sleepy

SaviourOfMySoul · January 2005

its alright, the death penalty is a tough issue to deal with, but Forgivness is key! remember you pray for it every day in the our father so think about that!

Maria

Unknown · January 2005

no the death penalty is ok i guess because the people that get it deserve it

sleepymusician · January 2005

Yea, I agree with that, and I know that we need to forgive and such, but it's not up to me to administer what that person deserves as punishment, I'm just saying what I believe would be good. Also, we follow the law, and we go by the law, ands I'm sure there are some verses in the bible which tell us to follow the government laws although I can't remember them off the top of my head right now, and if these criminals are caught, that will be their punishment, enshaulla. I know that I sound like a ruthless, heartless person, but this crime was ruthless and heartless and left many in pain. However, may God's will be mine will, and whatever he decides to do, I have no objection.

sleepy

socoolbishoy · January 2005

For me I donâ€™t like the death penalty, its bad economically and morally, and many, many accidents are made... but the old testament approved it... we see parents having the right to stone their children to death, if they are bad... and the adulteress was to be stoned, even in the new testamentâ€¦ but in a way, God stopped itâ€¦ remember what Jesus do to the people trying to stone the adulteress?

Unknown · January 2005

I think it's completely wrong but that's just an opinion. I don't think that we should put it upon our selves to persecute people who are a menace to society. What ever happend to "God will take care of it."? and the faith we put in God taking care of his own? If we have faith that the Lord will take care of all then why must we take care of it ourselves?? Is God not capable of doing just as much as we can? I do believe that God works through his children as many say,however, government knows no God..How do we know that it was that certain individual's time anyway?? What if God wanted them to live longer and perhaps repent at the last minute and become a great saint?? What if there was the death penalty at the time of St.Moses the black. We would've agreed to persecute him before God granted him repentance. Not only would this have prevented him from entering the kingdom of heaven, but it would show the lack of faith that we have in God and prevent us from knowing such a great saint. God bless.

sleepymusician · January 2005

ServantOfJesus, you put up a good argument, but I'll find the passage in the New Testament that I was talking about that talked about this. I won't argue without anything to back myself up. lol :-\

sleepy

mmatt95 · January 2005

hm, interesting, but even if we follow the rules of the state (which in this case would be deathpenalty?), would we be glad when they get executed? Would we feel that there was no alternative for them? Personally i'd find it better if these people had a chance to live (in prison) and have a chance to possibly repent so that their souls may have eternal life...what do we gain out of it when these people get executed? that's more the question we should try to answer i think...

Unknown · January 2005

lol, I haven't read anything to prove I'm right..It was just my personal opinion. I've also been told not to really follow the Old Testament(except the ten commandments) because many things God commands are because of the hardness of the people's hearts and now we know God on a personal level since Christ came down for our sakes to create a link between heaven and earth. We also would still be cicumsised if we were to follow the Old Testament. The Old Testament is a prelude to the New Testament. In the New Testament Christ prayed for his persecuters to be forgiven rather than punished since they too were a menace to society, persecuting all who did not follow them. God bless.

SaviourOfMySoul · January 2005

well, said your right the old testement is the way it is because of the hardend hearts of the people, i really like the way u said it there isnt much to say!

Maria

unconditional_love · January 2005

Hey I read the first 2 pages of this thread and im very eager to share my opinion because my friends and I were just randomly talking about the death penalty over dinner (dont ask y lol)..
anways, here goes:

I think that the death penalty should apply in some cases. If the convicted confessed to murder, and shows no remorse whatsoever, and was given the opportunity to repent constantly and refused it, then yes that person deserves whatever happens to them. However, many ask about the whole *doubt* issue... wat if there s doubt that theyr guilty and maybe tryin to protect someone ... or maybe theres doubt in the evidence .. in any case of doubt, death penalty shouldl be delayed until further evidence is brought and until (like someoen else said in page 1) until theyr 100% sure that this person actually committed the murder.

btw deATH penalty is a very serious matter and it is in rare occasions that an innocent dies. anyways, second of all, i agree with a point made earlier that death penalty is needed to scare anyone whos thinking of murder.. this will definitely save many lives.. because if God's punishment wont scare them, then maybe earthly punisment will.

Also, I would excuse the murderer if they were mentally disabled, and did not know what they were doing or if they were under the influence of someone not somethign (like drugs)..

now i know that your gona say it is written "thou shall not kill".. but that does not mean thou shall not punish.. i think punishing someone by death penalty (in those specific conditiions) is not the same as someone goin out n murderign someone. The victim was INNOCENT.. and the murderer is GUILTY.. therefore, killing is not the same as punishing someone by death.

you might ask me what about prisons.. y dont we just sentence those murderers who r found guilty without a doubt to life time in prison.. i say well what if they dont learn anythign from that.. and as CC mentioned, prisons r very nice now.. they even get free education!! and im totally against THE PEOPLE paying taxes for these low lives to be educated! HOW INSANE is that?!!! thats too crazy i think.. r u punishing or rewarding here?!

does anyone agree??

im tryin not to use my emotions after all thats happened.
4give me

GB

love

SaviourOfMySoul · January 2005

so what prisinors get an education explain to me how that education is going to be of any use to them? they are in prison so what this girl that someone mentioned in a previous post she got her law degree she is in prision who is she going to defend when she is in prision?? what firm will hire her after she has been released if she is ever released, i know its hard to forgive, but the bible tells us so.

Maria

unconditional_love · January 2005

maybe like through God;s way somehow, God will work through her and allow her an opportunity to defend someone in court (work what she learned in prison).. who knows.. God works in mysterious ways...thats what a Christian would say..
an athiest would be like.. perchance, this person will get a job through some possible slim chance.. possibility is there (slim but yes)..

i dunno, what do u think?

SaviourOfMySoul · January 2005

i am sorry i had a tough time understanding your post , but thats cause i lack understanding, but what i am trying to say, is even if this person gets her law degree, what is she to do with it while she is in prison...sure if she repents and truly goes back to God, God will work through her...but without God in her life, that person is DEAD!...i hope that gave u an idea on what i think ...

Maria

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