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Agpeya originally Coptic or Arabic?

[Deleted User]
in Coptic Orthodox Church
Was the Agpeya originally compiled in the Coptic language or the Arabic language? 

Comments

  • mabsootamabsoota
    pretty sure it was coptic, as all the psalms are translated from coptic (which is why they are a bit different from the common arabic or english translations you see in the Bible).
    they are closer to the translation found in the septuagint (greek) version of the old testament.

    if u look at the orthodox study Bible (and i strongly recommend that u do!), u will see that the psalms in the agpeya are very similar to that.

    but we have some proper coptic scolars on this forum, and i expect they will contribute very soon (probably they are still in liturgy!)
  • [Deleted User]
    @mabsoota, 
    Oh okay that makes more sense, I was wondering this to how old the Agpeya actually is if it was compiled before the Muslim Conquest in Egypt so it would be Coptic or after the conquest so that it would be Arabic. 
    Thank you so much!
  • ophadeceophadece
    Hi @msmekhael
    I heard from an Italian religion scholar that the ajbeya was actually compiled by the eighth or ninth centuries, so in Coptic yes but after the Arab conquest.. However I will search for the answers because it is an interesting topic for me too.. I remember having read something from Fr Tadros Yakoob Malaty but I will look again..
    Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
  • [Deleted User]
    @ophadece,
    Okay, thank you!
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    While still sourced in Coptic, consider that whoever began to print books have kinda done the mistake of saying "the seven canonical prayers" since most manuscripts don't actually say that. The most clear evidence is the breakup of Pascha prayers, 5 morning hours, 5 evening hours. 

    I think there is a short research Fr. Basilios Sobhi about the topic, in a lecture or a short paper...but that's all in arabic. 
  • [Deleted User]
    @minatasgeel,
    Do you happen to have the lecture or paper from Fr. Basilios Sobhi? I can read Arabic
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    It's a group of lectures:
    (the rest are connected to that video on the same channel)

    I can't find the paper right now. I'll keep looking. 
  • [Deleted User]
    @minatasgeel,
    Alright, thank you!
  • Amoussa01
    Can someone please translate it?! I have been researching this for quite some time and I really want to know when and how it was compiled. Unfortunately, I cannot read Arabic
  • Jojo_HannaJojo_Hanna
    So the title of “the seven canonical prayers” is incorrect? If so, why?
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    @Amoussa01...i think you should be able to follow the video lectures. 
    @jojo_hanna...that is too long of a topic to discuss, which even abouna Basilios takes a whole lecture to talk about. But, think about pascha prayers being a replacement for agpeya during holy week. you have 5 morning hours, and 5 evening hours. Are those what we have in the agpeya today?!
  • ophadeceophadece
    @minatasgeel,
    We do have ten prayers in the ajbeya on a daily basis, seven separate hours including the veil hour and three services of the midnight prayer..
    Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    @ophadece...but that's not what they are titled or broken up in Pascha. 
  • ophadeceophadece
    Ah yes I see your point @minatasgeel, now I understand, but what I mean to say is that they do replace ajbeya prayers hour for hour..
    Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
  • Jojo_HannaJojo_Hanna
    So the title of “the seven canonical prayers” is incorrect? If so, why?
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    Because it doesn't match our actual liturgical day structure. look at pascha prayers: 5 morning prayers, 5 evening prayers. 

    That naming, or more specifically, that 'number' only start appearing with printed books. 
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