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Liturgical differences between Coptic Orthodox and Coptic Catholic?

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  • copt333
    edited July 2019
    Thank you for the clarification. I am not the most historically knowledgeable person as you can see lol.
    In response to ItalianCoptic specifically, that is not what I have been taught, I merely researched on the internet for about 20 minutes. My church has many problems, one of those being we are not educated about our own history.

    EDIT: Just one question, when St Mark came to Egypt did he preach the Christian church in general or Orthodoxy? Was the church even split back then?

    Thank you for your replies and patience, I appreciate it. 
  • ophadeceophadece
    Dear @copt333,
    There was no Orthodox vs Catholic schism until the eleventh century AD. There was a Chalcedon Council in the fifth century AD that the Coptic Orthodox Church refuses. St Mark preached the Christian faith to the Egyptian people, so there was only one church (we call it ours because we have preserved St Mark's teachings and liturgy as opposed to other denominations), but history does tell us that some groups formed up away from the church in the first few centuries when they were rebuked in order to return to the upright Orthodox faith or be excommunicated.
    Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    edited July 2019
    @copt333 ... St. Mark preached Christianity and he established the Church of Alexandria. Of that church, Arius came, and many gnostic teachings around Nag hammadi and modern day Asyut. So we, and history does for sure, must differentiate between the church that St. Mark established with the true faith, and that which was perverted by other people. Meaning that we cannot say that any Egyptian Christian cannot consider St. Mark to be the founder of his Christianity if he is not affiliated to the Church of Alexandria that St. Mark established.
  • copt333

    This makes more sense now, thank you. If I may ask both of you, would you consider St Mark to be the founder of my Christianity? Since we have split off from you guys more recently I am assuming we have also preserved the teachings and liturgy more so than the other denominations which split off in the early centuries after the founding of the Coptic Church, besides from of course, the teachings which are exclusively Catholic. 


  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    The founder of Christianity is our Lord Jesus Christ. Then He gave His Disciples and Apostles to preach and establish churches/parishes/organizations to practice that which He gave them--eternal salvation. That being said, in today's world, and since the schisms from the 4th century, identification of faith is not based on what you say it is, but it's based on your affiliation... Only because your affiliation now says what you believe in. Except if you say, I believe this and I am not affiliated to any church... In which case you're just another Protestant protesting against the faith handed down by Christ and His Church, and in that case, in essence, you are the founder of your own faith because we all get the choice to choose what we believe at some point of time.

    Keeping the "teachings and the liturgy" of a specific church doesn't make us you a member of the church, but it's what you do after you are initiated in that church. Again, Arius wasnt just a regular layman...he was an ordained priest who also did practice the teachings and liturgy. But where is he now?! Keeping the teachings and the liturgy of the Coptic Orthodox Church doesn't make saint Mark the founder of your church since that liturgy has been developed greatly since the establishment of the church by St. Mark. Worshiping in the same manner as the Coptic Orthodox Church while officially still under the hierachy of the Catholic Church makes you a Catholic.

  • BiboboyBiboboy

    "For as long as there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not of the flesh, and behaving according to human inclinations? For when one says, 'I belong to Paul,' and another, 'I belong to Apollos,' are you not merely human?

    What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you came to believe, as the Lord assigned to each." (1 Cor. 3:3-5). 


    To answer the original question, the Coptic Catholic Liturgy currently in use is an edited version of the Coptic St. Basil Liturgy (and St. Gregory Liturgy on occasions). The reform occurred following the Second Vatican Council, and was approved by the Coptic Catholic Holy Synod in 1975/6. 

    For anyone who can read Arabic, this page shows a summary of the changes. In short, repetitions have been removed, so for example, you only say the Lord's Prayer once throughout the Liturgy:

    http://coptcatholic.net/مقارنة-بين-القداس-الباسيلي-قبل-وبعد-ال/



  • copt333
    Wow, thank you for this :D


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