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Abune Antonios made a public appearance

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  • haymanotabew

    Greetings,'

    Abune Paulos's authority and legitimacy was questionable by the majority of  Ethiopans. Here is why:  Abune Merkorios is from the Amhara ethnic. In 1991 when the Tigrian reble force, i.e current government,   ( from the Tigray ethnic considers itself a stanch enemy of the Amhara ethnic and vice versa ), took the power in Ethiopia and deposed Abune Merkorios under political involvement charges. Next, the new Tigrian governement places a Tigrian bishop to the throne of patriarch. The amhara (2nd largest ethnic group) inside Ethiopia protested but nothing they can do against a killing machine of the new government. Eventually, Abune Merkorios came to the U.S. and declared legitimate Patriarch and demanded to be reinstated. I the mean time after Abune Paulo's passed away a new Patriarch (belongs to the ethnic Tigray group) elected to the present.

     

    AN,

    I'm glad you verified that the Coptic Church was aware of the charges and process it followed.

    The Coptic Church made a huge mistake and by aligning itself with the renewal group who are primary responsible for the fall of the Patriarch abune Antonios, successfully made things worst than it were.

    I read you frequently stating the Government of Eritrea’s involvement in the church’s affair. That’s is not true what's so ever! Just so you know, There are two officially operating religions in Eritrea: Christian and Muslem.

    The Christian groups: Orthodox Tewahdo, Roman Catholic and Evangelical Lutheran not sure about the seventh Day Adventist Church.

    After the Government declared freedom of religion and warship, tones of heretic groups of fundamentalist descended to the country creating chaos all over.  Even they disagree with the Evangelical Lutherans who was in the country for more than 100 years not to mention calling the Orthodox and Catholics idol worshipers because we believe in the intersession of the saints. The three Christian groups reported their concern of safety and the normalcy to warship because of the intervention and disruptive nature of this heretic and renewal groups. The three official religions subsequently declared the rest as outside of the Christian religion.  I will not bored you with the details. Suffice to say, we are talking about a Government that is very unique and a church firmly grounded in the spirit and letter of the Holy Tradition and canon law. When the renewal church trenched in U.S. Atlanta, GA went on all out war against the EOTC and Government while Coptic Church assigned a Bishop for them one can only hope they come to their senses sooner than later.

    God bless,

    H.A.



  • AntoniousNIkolasAntoniousNIkolas
    edited August 2017
    Hello Again Haymanot abew.  Let us continue our discussion.

    Thank you AN for the translation which I found inconsistency.

    It seems that we have reached something of an impasse concerning the translation.  The translation I posted was provided by a priest who is definitely a supporter of His Holiness Abune Antonios as the lawful Patriarch, and a critic of Isaias Afewerki and the Eritrean government.  You have provided an alternative translation, and I do not think it would be unfair to say that your position is diametrically opposed to that of this priest: you are a critic of Abune Antonios (in that you regard him has being acquiescent to the Tahediso movement) and a supporter of the present government in Eritrea.  I think it would be pointless to pretend that either you or this priest are disinterested neutral parties.  You both have dogs in the fight, so to speak.  So what are we - the Coptic readers of this message board who cannot understand Tigrinya - to do?  We have been provided with two distinct translations by two Eritreans of differing religious and political views, each translation slanted towards their particular perspective, with nothing at all to help us discern which is more accurate other than our own feelings on the matter.  I'm afraid we will have to consider this aspect of the discussion a "push", because I will not be convinced that either you or this priest are impartial in this matter.

    Perhaps you could comment on this video version with English subtitles that seem to correspond to the translation I was given?  Thank you.


    Abune Paulos's authority and legitimacy was questionable by the majority of  Ethiopans. Here is why:  Abune Merkorios is from the Amhara ethnic. In 1991 when the Tigrian reble force, i.e current government,   ( from the Tigray ethnic considers itself a stanch enemy of the Amhara ethnic and vice versa ), took the power in Ethiopia and deposed Abune Merkorios under political involvement charges. Next, the new Tigrian governement places a Tigrian bishop to the throne of patriarch. The amhara (2nd largest ethnic group) inside Ethiopia protested but nothing they can do against a killing machine of the new government. Eventually, Abune Merkorios came to the U.S. and declared legitimate Patriarch and demanded to be reinstated. I the mean time after Abune Paulo's passed away a new Patriarch (belongs to the ethnic Tigray group) elected to the present.

    With respect, brother, while ethnic rivalries are part of the story, your analysis ignores several crucial factors.  For the benefit of those reading not familiar with the situation, I will be as explicit as possible and might be telling you some things you already know.  Please forgive me and bear with me.  The Ethiopian Monarchy and the national (Orthodox) Church were overthrown by a military dictator named Mengistu Haile Maryam and a Marxist junta called the Derg.  This regime slaughtered thousands of nobles and churchmen, including the Emperor Haile Selassie I and the Patriarch H.H. Abune Theophilos.

    The Derg disestablished the national Church, seized all of its lands, assets, and wealth, and fostered the growth of Islam and Pentecostal sects in order to weaken the Church's hold on the people.  Most of the leading bishops and priests in the country were liquidated or forced into monastic retirement.

    Mengistu wanted a pliant patriarch he could manipulate, and brought a holy hermit named Abune Teklahaimanot to the Patriarchal Throne while Abune Theophilos was still alive in prison.  The Oriental Orthodox communion refused to recognize Abune Teklahaimanot as legitimate.  Ironically, Abune Teklahaimnot proved to be less cooperative than Mengistu imagined and openly confronted him when he carpet-bombed civilians, killed and imprisoned other churchmen, and committed other horrific crimes.  Mengistu then (reportedly) had Abune Teklahaimanot poisoned.

    Mengistu then ordered the rump of the Synod (composed of collaborators like Abune Zena Markos and Abune Melchizedek) to put another collaborator - Abune Merkorios - on the Throne.  Abune Merkorios was a convinced communist who had close relationships with regional governors with much innocent blood on their hands.

    When the Derg was overthrown, there were mass demonstrations in the streets calling for Abune Merkorios to step down.  He did, citing health issues and stress.  Abune Zena Markos then made a power play for the Throne, but this was defeated because the bishops the liberated Synod brought back from exile, imprisonment, and forced retirement weren't having it.  Abune Paulos, a prisoner of the Derg who had suffered for the Church, was elected instead.  Abune Merkorios later fled to the USA, as did Abune Zena Markos and Abune Melchizedek, where they formed an absolutely illegitimate body called the "Synod in Exile" that has never been recognized by any of the other Oriental Orthodox Churches, who all recognize the only legitimate Patriarch, which is presently Abune Mathias.  At first, Abune Zena Markos and Abune Melchizedek were not proponents of returning Abune Merkorios to the Throne.  Rather, they wanted Abuune Zena Markos on the Throne.  Once they realized that wasn't going to happen, they belatedly took up Abune Merkorios' cause and began using him as a figurehead for their machinations abroad.

    Abune Merkorios is a puppet of those who surround him, chiefly Abune Melchezedek (now that Abune Zena Markos has reposed).  He wanted to step down a long time ago and return to Ethiopia and retire to a monastery (he is in ill health) but his handlers won't allow that because they are opponents of the present government.  Pray for him.

    I sincerely hope, brother, that you don't regard the legitimate Ethiopian Synod as being based in Oakland or Seattle rather than Addis Ababa.  Lord, have mercy.

    I'm glad you verified that the Coptic Church was aware of the charges and process it followed.

    The Coptic Church made a huge mistake and by aligning itself with the renewal group who are primary responsible for the fall of the Patriarch abune Antonios, successfully made things worst than it were.


    You have implied that the Coptic Church had some as yet unmentioned motive for aligning itself with the Eritrean faction it chose, above and beyond its concerns over the canonical means by which H.H. Abune Antonios was deposed.  Would you mind, please, outlining what that hidden motive (motives?) might be?


    I read you frequently stating the Government of Eritrea’s involvement in the church’s affair. That’s is not true what's so ever! Just so you know, There are two officially operating religions in Eritrea: Christian and Muslem.

    The Christian groups: Orthodox Tewahdo, Roman Catholic and Evangelical Lutheran not sure about the seventh Day Adventist Church.

    After the Government declared freedom of religion and warship, tones of heretic groups of fundamentalist descended to the country creating chaos all over.  Even they disagree with the Evangelical Lutherans who was in the country for more than 100 years not to mention calling the Orthodox and Catholics idol worshipers because we believe in the intersession of the saints. The three Christian groups reported their concern of safety and the normalcy to warship because of the intervention and disruptive nature of this heretic and renewal groups. The three official religions subsequently declared the rest as outside of the Christian religion.  I will not bored you with the details. Suffice to say, we are talking about a Government that is very unique and a church firmly grounded in the spirit and letter of the Holy Tradition and canon law. When the renewal church trenched in U.S. Atlanta, GA went on all out war against the EOTC and Government while Coptic Church assigned a Bishop for them one can only hope they come to their senses sooner than later.


    To be quite frank, I have mixed feelings about this.  On the one hand, I am sympathetic to the idea of the government taking measures to safeguard the Orthodoxy of the people and prohibiting foreign missionaries with deep pockets and connections to the West from spreading their insidious doctrines, leading the people astray.  This is how it was in Ethiopia in the days of the Monarchy.  Foreign churches could help with hospitals, etc., but were not allowed to proselytize.

    On the other, I have met priests here in the US who say that they have escaped Eritrea and were jailed and physically tortured by the regime there.  Are they lying?  You know that I am 100% opposed to Protestantizers wherever they are to be found.  It is a struggle for me not to harbor ill feelings against them in my soul because they are leading the people astray and abusing the holy things, and many of them arrogantly and stubbornly refuse to accept correction because in their hubris and prelest, they think they have a direct pipeline to God which bypasses the canonical authorities.  But even I wouldn't say, lock them up in jail.  Discipline them via ecclesiastical means.  Defrock and excommunicate them as St. Paul says to do if they persist in their errors, but I can't advocate jailing them or physically hurting them.  If what you are saying is true, what are we to make of those Eritreans living in the West who claim that this happened to them?

    Thank you, and God bless you.
  • TigrayTigray
    In Ethiopia Amhara people,Tigray people and Agew people are the three ethnic groups who are largely members of Ethiopian Orthodox church.Tigray region, who has 96,5% Tigrayan majority has got 95,6% Orthodox Christian majority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigray_Region .Also Amhara region who has 95% Amhara and Agew majority, is 82,5% Orthodox Christian majority,17,2% muslim and 0,2% protestant   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amhara_Region This is why Oriental Orthodox Christianity in Ethiopia and Eritrea is a very important part of Amhara,Tigray and Agew people and that's why Protestantism had a big rise between Oromo people and people who live in south Ethiopia because they saw Oriental Orthodoxy as a part of Amhara,Tigray and Agew identity.The same in Eritrea who has got 55% Tigray majority and 45% other ethnic groups.Tigrayans of Eritrea are almost all members in Eritrean Orthodox church and  almost all people from other ethnic groups are muslims.
  • ServosServos
    Why Tigray from Eritrea wanted separation from Tigray in Ethiopia?
    Was not better to be in one state?

  • TigrayTigray
    I believe that Tigray from Eritrea and Tigray from Ethiopia and also Amhara region from Ethiopia must be one state.Tigrayans and Amhara people have got the same religion(the great majority of these two ethnic groups are Oriental Orthodox Christians) and we have got also common culture.We have got only different language but this isn't problem.
  • TigrayTigray
    Amhara people and Tigrayans are also known as Abbysinians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abyssinian_people and our home(Amhara region and Tigray region in North Ethiopia and also South and Central Eritrea) is Abbysinia.
  • ioannesAthanasius
    Regardless or not whether Abune Antonios was a member of Tehadiso or not (if he supported Tehadiso then that’s bad); the fact that he was arrested by a *secular* police force under control of a *secular country* is incredibly suspicious. If he was truly a member of Tehadiso, he would’ve simply been deposed as seen with Pope Yousab II. If anyone has any sources in English/Arabic; I will be very grateful.
    Thank you all.
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