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Homosexuality be Cured?

petertohen
in Faith Issues
Hi,

I'm curious to know what the Orthodox position is on Homosexuality? 

No doubt it sees homosexuality as a sin. But does it offer a cure to those who see themselves as "gay" from birth?

There are cases of induced homosexuality, where the person was heterosexual and then became homosexual, or engaged in homosexuality simply due to a sinful environment. No doubt this type of perversion can be cured.

But what is the cure for those who see themselves as gay - from birth? If the Church starts to say "they can be cured" - then is it putting them in a dangerous psychological position where the person is now faced with re-building their entire psycho-neurlogical behavior? Is this something that should be done? 

I have met someone who sees himself as "gay". He does not consider being gay as a disorder that needs to be treated, but wants to be Orthodox. He understands that he can NEVER have any homosexual relations, but doesn't see that the fact that he finds men attractive as a disorder. 

What should be said to such people? What is the response of the Church concerning such conditions?

Comments

  • tenooshttenoosht
    edited December 2017
    I highly recommend you watch one or both of the below videos



    This one is in Arabic (if you can understand it). He is a psychiatrist of some sorts and seems to specialize in homosexuality. He describes how homosexuality comes to be (i.e. from a gender non-conformation at a young age (1-5) and gender identity confusion during adolescense (5-15)).

    One argument he makes is that there can be no homosexuality at birth... because there is no sexuality. Not until puberty. But what causes males to be attracted to other males, or vice versa?

    He also talks about treatment, and what that means and when it works and when it doesn't.

    One thing he mentions that is relevant to your question is: Why is something considered a sin? Is it just because God felt like making this a sin and that not a sin? Something is considered a sin by God because it is harmful to us. And continues by asking why homosexuality would be considered harmful... he quotes studies about depression among homosexuals (the English video below quotes them too), he talks a little about AIDS and HIV, etc. 

    He talks about many examples of people from all walks of life who have sought treatment with him, some of which were successful. But it's a very long process. He says in his experience no one who sought treatment after the age of 30 ended up continuing until the end. But many in their teen/twenties went on to be fully changed, married a woman, had kids, healthy marriage, etc.

    If you don't understand Arabic: 

    This one is Dr. Julie Hamilton's and she says most of the same things, but does not talk about treatment too much. 

    These videos were eye opening to me in understanding where homosexuality comes from. And I think a lot of people who identify as homosexuals, also lack this knowledge which is why they may see their situation as hopeless. 

    But there is hope, and though it may be hard, it is possible.
  • JoshuaaJoshuaa
    I would think the church has a spiritual lead life for those whom are inspired to be a part of its community.
    Sin is separation from God so how could a homosexual represent Jesus Christ when Jesus was not a homosexual?
  • BeeKay
    Using that logic... how can a married person represent Jesus Christ when Jesus was not married?
  • minasolimanminasoliman
    edited December 2017
    “Sin is separation from God so how could a homosexual represent Jesus Christ when Jesus was not a homosexual?”

    Because we do not think a person represents Christ, but rather Christ represents us, and all of us fall short of the glory of God. But even while we were sinners, He took our flesh and decided to show us our potential. It is in this potential we see all sinners capable of the hope of reaching that potential, whether or not th propensity to that sin can be cured in this temporal life.
  • monfretmonfret
    http://www.conservapedia.com/Conversion_therapy

  • Daniel_Kyrillos
    It's important not to treat homosexuality like a disease or condition, like the flu, but rather count it with other sins, like lying or coveting. "Treatment" implies an inherent abnormality, as if the person is their sin. 
    //
    @monfret websites like conservapedia are not reliable nor helpful- they exist only to spew false ideas and cause division, which is something we definitely do not want.
  • JoshuaaJoshuaa
    A married couple are one Beekay.

    It is two opposites coming together. A departure from the self. Adam was born in God's image and that we become departed from the self when we get married. This is a true love God has for us.
    While homosexuals seek their same image (sounding a bit narcissistic) and this is not the God we know.

    I've said it before that it breaks God's covenant of looking after us for generation to generation simply because homosexuals are unable to have children.
  • JoshuaaJoshuaa
    Sorry Mina I used the wrong word. I meant imitate not represent. Imitate is a better word for image.
  • minasolimanminasoliman
    To imitate means to allow the image/icon of God in you to be repainted by Christ. All human beings therefore have the potential to imitate Christ if they allow His grace to be in them. But they also requires assistance from fellow brothers and sisters in Christ who also acknowledge they are sinners no differently than the homosexual. In fact, as Paul would say, “I am the chief of sinners.”

    With that said, I don’t see any problem with calling homosexuality a condition or not. That doesn’t change the fact it’s a sin. There are so many psychiatric conditions that can lead someone with a greater propensity to commit certain sins. Some people can be “born that way” to lie or steal or to be gluttonous or have greater sexual appetites. Genetics is a more complicated field than previously understood. For it to be a “condition” only means that I should be that much more sympathetic in loving a homosexual person (and anyone for that matter) so that i could carry whatever burdens they may have with them in order to lead them to repentance. Maybe the propensity to sin will never go away and they will always have that temptation in them, but the Church can provide a way in which they can channel their temptations toward their love to Christ and continue to bear that Cross they were born with.

    Christ became a human being, and on the Cross He also “became sin” to destroy sin. The sin does not exclude any sin. He bore ALL OF HUMANITY regardless of their sin in Himself. We do not exclude anyone made in the image and likeness of Christ the opportunity offered to him/her to imitate Christ.
  • JoshuaaJoshuaa
    The cure for sin is chastity. That we sure purity in our hearts and minds.
    Can anyone change even from birth?
    Christ can change anyone if they seek Him.
    I ask forgiveness if any comments are taken on the personal level.
  • JoshuaaJoshuaa
    Futhermore, if sin is seperation from God. Then it does not matter if the sin is biological (as a lot of sin is concerning the flesh) because the aim is to get back to God on the spiritual level. Therefore, to look for the remission of the desires that keep us for a world that is passing away for we are into a new life with Christ that the old one will pass away as well.
    We look for spiritual transformation not a flesh one.
  • Mina_K
    @tenoosht @monfret  Conversion therapy has been researched and proven to be ineffective.
  • tenooshttenoosht

    I encourage you to actually watch the videos.

    In the first one (Arabic) he discusses many successful cases, but mentions that he has never seen anyone that is over the age of 30 "convert" (for lack of a better term). But he has many successful cases at younger ages.

    If the gender identity confusion is realized at a very young age, then the work needs to happen on the side of the parents (they have courses/therapy for parents to work on how they deal with each other and how they deal with the child - for example positive reinforcement in the masculinity of the child, dad spending time with the kid, etc). If it happens at a young age before puberty, then it may be enough for the parents to change in their interactions, but the kid may also need some therapeutic treatment. If it happens after puberty, the kid definitely requires therapeutic treatment.

    He describes it like an onion (or maybe a flower... don't remember) with many layers that need to be peeled back. In adulthood (especially 30 years old or so) there are just too many layers and the process is too long and painful. In those cases it does not work. But in youth and adolescence, he quotes success where the person truly desires it and works hard at it.

    From the spiritual side, it's also important to note that the sin of homosexuality comes from sexual immorality. If a man harbors these thoughts and regularly fights them, and lives a life of abstinence and virginity and repentance, who is to say he will not gain the eternal life?
  • RemnkemiRemnkemi
    "Conversion therapy has been researched and proven to be ineffective."
    That really depends on how you define ineffective. If by effective, one means "stopping thoughts of homosexuality", then conversion therapy is clearly untherapeutic. Even in the days of experimental lobotomies, behavior did not stop thoughts of evil or any other negative thought. But if one means "controlling homosexual behavior through cognitive behavioral therapy, then conversion therapy is therapeutic. However, science in general will be inconsistent on definitions and therapeutic efficacy of conversion therapy because of the political ramifications. 
  • Mina_K
    @tenoosht I don't understand Arabic, so I couldn't watch the first video. The second video doesn't really talk about treatment.

    You and I aren't both experts in the field, but what seems to provide stronger evidence: the plethora of studies in the scientific community showing the ineffectiveness of gay conversion therapy, or a lone psychiatrist appearing on a Coptic TV channel? The former evidence relies on peer-reviewed, documented research that uses the scientific method, while the latter evidence is merely anecdotal.


    @Remnkemi The main goal of conversion therapy is to "convert" someone from being gay to being straight. "Controlling" or repressing homosexual behavior doesn't "convert" a homosexual individual whatsoever; it merely helps the individual consciously control themselves from committing an act that they still have a subconscious urge to do. That doesn't change someone's sexual orientation; it just represses the physical manifestations of their current sexual orientation.
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