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New US Dioceses -- Except NJ

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  • minasolimanminasoliman
    That makes sense.  The same logic can be for Abouna Seraphim as well.  Serving the Coptic Churches in those three states gave both the people and the Pope confidence to make him an official diocesan bishop.
  • mabsootamabsoota
    there will be a coptic church in romania? pls tell me more...
    sorry if i derail yr thread, feel free to move my 'non usa' comments to a separate section.
    can't help smiling at anba angaelos though, glad he will be in uk long term.
  • minasolimanminasoliman
    :) congrats for both the UK and Romania

    (3obalna)
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    @mabsoota I actually donno anything about that...I just translated it from the Arabic.
  • Daniel_Kyrillos
    Ok so just to be caught up:

    BEFORE THIS MESS, who would of been/was bishop or met of the DMV area (Deleware to Virginia)?
    Who is Anba Michael? I wasn't alive when he was in the area so I'm very confused.

    AFTER THE ORDINATIONS AND ENTHRONEMENTS, will anything change for Virginia since H.H. has seemingly decided to leave us out of the mix?

    Does the reason we're being avoided by everyone have anything to do with Abn. Bishoy Andrawes and his drama?

    Also, Anba Karas being bishop of everywhere EXCEPT Virginia seems like trying to give the Fairfax parish a semi-autonomy over what happens with at least 5 other churches in the area. Which is a very very bad idea. The Springfield parish is borderline corrupt. It's also weird since he's visited the area multiple times in the past year and it seemed like he was getting to know the knew churches' priests well.

  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    Hi @Daniel_Kyrillos...don't be too hard on yourself...we will all survive as long as we are with God :-)

    Let me put it this way, anyone who is not in the following dioceses is under the Pope directly, making up the Archdiocese of North America (including Canada) and therefore served by Anba Karas: LA, SUS, NYNE, SC/NC/KY, Mississauga Canada. Anba Michael is a bishop ordained in 2009. His jurisdiction is what some are now fighting about...and you can see earlier posts or even the facebook posts for more details on that.

    If you are from VA, you probably seen Anba Karas because he is (until the ordination) serving the church that are "not with" Anba Michael...including Fairfax. HG used to do regular meetings for the priests in the area. He was getting to know everyone because it was his job...know the people to serve them. But we did always know that he will be enthroned, we were just not sure where till around a month or so ago.  

    I think fairfax, despite "Abouna Beshoy Drama" is not in a bad state compared to other churches around that are "with" Anba Michael. Also, this whole issue with Atif Aziz is prob affecting everyone in the area. 

    After the ordination, the following will happen (if nothing from what's announced changes):
    1-Anba Karras will be enthroned on PA, DE, ML, WV 
    2-Fr. Seraphim El-soryani will be ordained and enthroned on MI, OH, IN
    3-The Archdiocese will not include the 7 states in 1 and 2, and we will get Anba Angelos, the General Bishop of Shobra instead of Anba Karas
  • AntoniousNIkolasAntoniousNIkolas
    edited November 2017

    Like Mina, I am happy to hear that H.G. Anba Angaelos will be our bishop in the Archdiocese.  That said, I am disappointed that most of the areas that practice heteropraxis - that is, CCM in the Liturgy after Psalm 150, etc. - remain without a bishop.  The fact that there is no real episcopal oversight in the areas where these things occur is problematic.

  • minasolimanminasoliman
    since we are on the subject of dioceses, why did H.H. Pope Shenouda make only Southern California a diocese and not all of Cali? And where is the dividing line for HE Metropolitan Serapion’s diocese?
  • minasolimanminasoliman
    So I played around with LA diocese website. It seems the 37th parallel line applies to that diocese as much as it does to the SUS diocese

    Just for fun:
    https://ibb.co/jqw6dG
  • qawe
    The LA diocese stretches as far north as Visalia, but recently was expanded to include Fresno. If we applied this expansion consistently, it would also include some of the churches just south of the San Francisco Bay Area that are presently under Patriarchal jurisdiction. But this expansion took place as HH requested that HE administer the Fresno church to solve some problems there, and HE said he doesn't administer churches that aren't part of his diocese.
  • minasolimanminasoliman
    edited November 2017
    Lol...in other words, I ain’t touching Fresno until you make it officially my diocese.

    So in other words, anything below San Francisco. Sheesh! Just make all of Cali for His Eminence. There’s no real logic in these ecclesiastical divisions.
  • minasolimanminasoliman
    When is Anba Angelos of Shubra coming to NJ? Is he here yet?
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    He should be coming next Sunday with Anba Karas.
  • BiboboyBiboboy
    "All of these problems that are occurring now are the consequence of poor ecclesiological theology and the political paradigm of HH Pope Kyrillos VI and Pope Shenouda III. 

    Not only is there no theological grounds for the general bishop, there is no precedent."


    I think the precedent for "general bishop" is the more correct term "auxiliary bishop,"  who assists the diocesan bishop.  
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    @Biboboy...that is not a rank in the Coptic Orthodox Church. The closest to it is Khouri Episcopos, which many of the older bishops we have now were. For some reason, that rank died down. Even the last Khouri Episcopos, Anba Isaak who serves with Anba Pakhomios was ordained as a general bishop.
  • minasolimanminasoliman
    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but an auxiliary bishop still had a "diocese" (for a lack of a better term) in the ancient Church.  Perhaps a weak example can be Gregory the Theologian who assisted his father's diocese of Nazienzen, but was bishop of Sasima (a weak example because according to Gregory, Sasima was a swamp with no one, and so it could be seen as a canonical loophole St. Basil took advantage of).
  • RemnkemiRemnkemi
    Mina, St Basil urged St Gregory to return to Sasima. It was Gregory senior and junior who took advantage of the loophole. 

    My understanding of the auxiliary bishop developed in the early persecution of the Church. Bishops were targeted during the persecutions in various local metropolises so they fled to other cities. They obviously couldn't go back to their home city until the persecution ended so they ended up helping the bishop of the refugee city. Thus, they acted like auxiliary bishops but their diocese was not that city. Since the persecutions didn't end for many years, many "auxiliary" bishops died in the refugee city. Their original diocese became vacant and eventually defunct. These defunct diocese then became titular dioceses. Over time, when a bishop needed help, they ordained an auxiliary bishop under one of the defunct sees so that they would not violate canons, ie, there weren't two diocesan bishops in one city. Eventually it ended up being one big loophole that was exploited. With time, the concept of general bishop emerged, not because of any theology but for the need to have multiple bishops in one city. The problem now is that the general bishop is acting like a limited diocesan bishop for the pope - who technically can't be the bishop of two cities. 

    Regardless, whether it was St Gregory or any other "trend" for persecuted bishops, what started out as the exception has become the rule. And if an exception is the basis of precedence, it still implies the canon rule still logically and theologically prevails. But since it is not politically feasible, the exception remains.


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