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On Communion and Protestants

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  • basemwilliam
    edited February 2017
    Dear Mina: there are many, not necessarily "canonized" Saints who were Catholic (and Protestants). To cite a few (at least the ones whose lives (before writings) were influential in my own spiritual growth: Mother Theresa of Calcutta, St John of the Cross, Juliana of Norwich, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, and Martin Luther King Jr. Now "communion" is a gift of God grace and not an "antibiotic". We have to "receive it". Means we have to be prepared by prayers and supplication to receive Christ! We are not passive recipients not because God needs our "spiritual dividends" but because "God is a gentleman" (in CS Lewis words) who don't impose Himself on anyone! We pray "for blessing and not condemnation" before we partake the Divine mysteries for that reason.
  • minasolimanminasoliman
    edited February 2017
    Sure! I also like MLK, Mother Theresa, St. Francis of Assisi, CS Lewis, etc. I also appreciate how God would inspire such individuals despite them being outside the Church. But here's the important part: "outside the Church." Let's not lose sight of that fact. We may gain some inspiration from those outside the Church, but they're still..."outside the Church".

    Furthermore, we need people with good discernment in reading these texts. Not everything MLK or Mother Theresa wrote is something "Orthodox" or agreeable. We recognize them for VERY SPECIFIC reasons in society that make them not necessarily Christian "saints" but recognized as "saints" by a more secular world. That also puts them in good company with good people like Ghandi and Mandela. While we recognize in fact that some of these humanitarians were Christians, that does not mean they were Orthodox and certainly the whole world by manner of good human virtue share in their "secular sainthood". That needs to be highlighted.
  • mikeforjesusmikeforjesus
    edited February 2017
    Just wanted to discuss something else but not clear now
  • mikeforjesusmikeforjesus
    edited February 2017
    My father of confession revealed a misunderstanding some orthodox have about confession he said if one is truly repentant even without confession he is forgiven but it is good to go to a priest so he can declare you are truly repentant and forgiven by the gift of the Holy Spirit given. I believe a protestant pastor will have this same gift because I believe in God's care for protestants but if all the pastors are unfaithful and their acceptable denominations are not strong they may need to see a priest unless God gives them victory if there are exceptions if any. Victory may be possible without confession to a pastor as long as one confesses to fellow believers for those who God will excuse if any but the only ones I think God may excuse is those who were never encouraged to confess to a pastor and a priest in a good manner so they do so with a clear conscience because they did not come to know God will help them if they confess. By clear conscience I mean they decide it is a right and reasonable thing to do which should be understood by their family members who are christian. Whoever does not desire to confess is not forgiven because the bible says he who covers his sins will not prosper but he who confesses and forsakes them will have mercy. Confession is a sacrament that helps in repentance and all orthodox are obliged to confess because there is no reason to be a willful schismatic since there is no reason to think you will hurt any of your family if you remain orthodox since all of them are orthodox who are very close to you and you can be orthodox while fully accepting protestants
  • mikeforjesusmikeforjesus
    I thought I added the below in the above post I don't know why it is not there:
    Sometimes fear of hurting another member of the family who is christian but not orthodox is also not a good excuse if you feel it may help them consider orthodoxy if you convert to orthodoxy or stay orthodox if your family is part of another christian denomination
  • mikeforjesusmikeforjesus
    edited March 2017
    I am changing my position to I think Protestants and more likely Catholics can be saved but I do not know so I don't want to stop others from seeking and I don't want to be responsible for them not seeking. I have not yet been able to believe orthodoxy is only way but I am still seeking. So I am not fully orthodox and may not be saved according to some orthodox. I believe I will not be saved as orthodox anyway if it was true you need to preach orthodox only will be saved unless I am fully convinced you need to be. So my non orthodox Christian friends should take comfort that if they go to hell so will I and they shouldn't feel guilty about that because I can not see the truth by my own fault about orthodoxy so I deserve it and I'm sure they will respond if I see. Therefore my life and death is with my brothers outside the church but I still think we can be saved as me orthodox and them non orthodox

    I don't see how this message harms anyone but if it does I go back to my original position
  • mikeforjesusmikeforjesus
    edited March 2017
    I take it back. A kingdom divided will not stand. We have to accept Protestants and Catholics outside the church because that makes non Christians less likely to be Christian and those Christians not sure if they are Christian but worried about their family if they convert stumble and both maybe less likely to do the commandments
  • basemwilliam
    Mike I am sorry if my writings disturbed you. Please take comfort in this simple promise "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). The best we can do as Orthodox Christians is to strive to imitate Christ our Lord in our life or "preach without words". You may also find comfort in CS Lewis words: "Whoever seeks true joy, shall not miss it". We are pilgrims, spiritual seekers but the road to the Kingdom has been walked before by our older brother and Lord and we trust that he will walk us and all our brethren back to the fold of God the Father where He was before the creation of the world. All souls were bought at a cosmically huge cost and it is His good pleasure that all find the way even if He has to descend to Hades to claim them! May the Lord be with you and give you comfort and Grace!
  • mikeforjesusmikeforjesus
    edited March 2017
    Thank you dear bassem your words did not disturb me but I believe Christ already descended to hades and finished the work of salvation for all He knows deserve it. He said My sheep hear My voice and they follow Me and I give them eternal life. I should try to follow people advice not to determine for God who deserves His salvation.If I knew what God knows I would know that His judgements are just and I would agree with them and Jesus said God is good and more good than all
    I would understand His judgements. Even those in hades will know God judgement is just and they do not belong in heaven though they hate Him
  • mikeforjesusmikeforjesus
    I believe orthodox are saved if they really believe what they are saying and not aware of stumbling others or feeling they may be stumbling others but if they feel they may be stumbling others they need to accept other Christians.
  • mikeforjesusmikeforjesus
    edited April 2017
    I am confused why the church says communion helps fight sin. It is probably because Jesus said His flesh is food indeed and His blood is drink indeed but how do we know if that applies to fighting sin. Anyway I think there are two types of repentance everyone can do. One leads to you being saved and the other makes you a saint. I think even Protestants can do both but I think it is best to follow the church to make sure
    Before I wrote the above I wanted to say I am not sure Protestants can live righteous without communion but I think so
    Jesus said my flesh is food indeed
    It may be as I said that communion just helps some things
    Paul said grace to every one who calls on the name of Jesus Christ in every place
    We should follow the church to make sure if one is struggling. You have to follow truth even if your family does not like it just like non Christians have to. I was only worried you may stumble people who are actually fully Christian but if they are not we have to follow Christ no matter what

    You can say to family I think Protestants can be saved but I am being orthodox to make sure
    The church teaches communion helps fight sin but where is that in the bible ?
    It may be communion helps you be more righteous but you can still be saved without it but I do not know
    But my dad has said I am only responsible for myself
    But God said to Ezekiel if you don't warn the blood will be on your head
    But that may be the job of only priests but we need to help them
    Unless only orthodox have to take communion to have grace but do orthodox have to remain orthodox? Is there a purpose for the church that without orthodox being orthodox other Christians can not be saved ?

  • JoshuaaJoshuaa
    God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son. This, when we see Jesus Christ on the cross is sacrifial love. We are truly part of that when we live our life in Christ Jesus. He teaches us how to make the inner sacrifice first, so we are united in Him. Then to make the outer sacrifices (works), and that is to visit the widow etc and humbly seek repentance from sinners. For sin is not only separation from God, but it is to miss the mark. We need God's wisdom to unite us.
    Jesus Christ has conquered death and that is why He is the life and that this life, when we have our faith in Him, is in theheaven and on earth. So we can pray to those from our church and they can pray for us because they have life even though they died.

    We must try not to accept protestant ways because they have lost their Apostleship. We know God by his energy and this energy we receive by the Holy Spirit in which the Apostles received at Pentecost. The Holy Spirit sanctifies (makes Holy) and this is what the Holy Spirit did to the Apostles at Pentecost. So when the protestants lost their Apostleship they lost their sanctification. When we follow our sacraments we know they are Holy because the Holy Spirit sanctified them and we live in the fullness of them. Protestants don't have this fullness not having seven sacraments. They did away with them because those sacraments were authority. This authority came from God whom also said the church had autourity to bind and loose. Some churches did not do a good job in doing that, but those whom where in those churches should of stayed in good times or bad.
    Matin Luther, who wrote the bible in German, was the architect of the modern German language. Whom in typical German efficency gave a literal translation taking what should and still is God's mystery out of the context ie having faith that you are saved because Jesus Christ died on the cross.

    You mention the ten virgins Mike, but Mike the other half of Matthew 25 is about the servants whom the master gave money and when he came back three of the four had doubled their money but one buried his. That servant did not do the work of what he received. We have received the sacraments and they have been sanctified and we work them and whatever else we receive from God.
    Matthew 25 is set in two parts and the virgins are about faith and the servants about works.

    When we see Jesus on the cross, let it remind us of sacrifial love that unites us with and in Him.
  • mikeforjesusmikeforjesus
    edited April 2017
    I wanted to change my mind by saying the below but I think I should keep it for now until I learn the purpose of communion and what food it gives to our spirit and if without it you can not be fed and have life and if you can be righteous without having life. I know you can be righteous but I mean as righteous to have no loss of reward

    I wanted to say

    You my people can believe what you want to believe if you believe it completely as for me I will teach Christ not only for orthodox. Christ did not send me to baptise Paul said but to preach the gospel it was others job
    I am only responsible for myself to go to church and have communion if it is beneficial. It is the priests job to baptise and teach you need to be orthodox if they believe that for sure otherwise they must preach they do not know and baptise
    I am going to follow my conscience the bible is not very clear you need to be orthodox therefore I am excused as Paul said grace to all who call on the Lord Jesus in every place
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