I was wondering if anyone has the text to the first stanza of the mo7ayar for Palm Sunday, the stanza right before "fet-hemsi." Cantor Ibrahim records it in his recording on this site. It is starts with "Apenchois." It is #39 in this link:
...i wrote it..but you have to know that it is NOT GENUINE..
How can one use prefix a before banshois and then add it again before the verb as in afsha. That's wrong..
Oujai khan ebshois
i know this since about 6 years from now..the one who posted this question asked me to write what cantor Ibrahim has recorded..so i wrote it..i was informed that cantor Ibrahin and bishop Demitrius of Malawi have added this verse..and was published only on the pascha book of saint Mina monastry in alexandria as bishop Demitrius is the supervisor of the printing matter there..but grammatically for the first moment we may see that it is wrong..but when we read much in the coptic literature we find that when the sentence elongates between the subject and the verb the perfix may be added again..
..read in the doxology of matin (-a- pistoy nofy adswdb enda da partania -a-fshanaf)..and when you read more you will find more..
this is true..but is not a basis to start the mohayers with( pachios)..there are some exceptions to be added here:
1-the one of palm sunday starts originally with (fee et hemci)..
2- the one of the annunciation starts originally with (amwini annav arieshfeery)...
No this is blatantly wrong. There is no such a thing as the longer the phrase cancels the usage of the first article.. no, not at all. I will go back to the matins doxology but there is no shame in saying it is wrong too, and correcting it. We will find fallacious scripts all the time, due to several reasons. That doesn't make it acceptable to replicate.
Secondly please don't take my comments as though I was blaming you for anything. I am aware you were just copying mere text.
Thirdly, it's interesting that even the Lenten mohayer starts with bashois. How is that! The rest of the verse will then make no sense..
Secondly, in the Lent mohayar, without the initial "a" in "Apenchois", the resulting text would conceivably mean "Our Lord Jesus Christ, fast for us", not "Our Lord Jesus Christ fasted for us". One issue though. In order to say "Our Lord Jesus Christ fast for us", it would be "Penchois Isos Pikhristos arinystevin..." not "ernystevin". Either way, it is still grammatically incorrect to remove the "a" in "Apenchois" without modifying the verb "ernystevin". Hopefully, Minasafwat can send us copies of the Eldar Elbatriakia manuscript to see the Lent mohayar.
I agree with minasafwat that the original mohayar was Efnav empiesmo. But I think that was for annual seasons. Festive seasons borrowed verses from it but they developed into something else (as we have seen in the Nayrouz mohayar).
-this what is written in eldar elbatriarchia manuscript..from the book of anba Samuel (and it is grammatically correct)
-(efnav) is not the topic to discuss here... and it is not confined to annual seasons..
-the second proof is that it was also said in resurrection (before inventing the classical mohayer starting with pachoic) from mosabh elzolmah:
- i have done a good research(i think) regarding (efnav) in about60 pages but unfortunately it is in arabic
It is grammatically incorrect..
Oujai khan ebshois
It is not. The pentateuch is full of dozens of examples. Not only with past tense but also with 3rd future ere. .... efe...
Since I have read it and seen it, I would encourage you to read it before making incorrect assertions.
I think the pentateuch authors know more coptic than anyone alive now and I don't think that you are correct over them.
I'd encourage remnkimi to do a search and present the details if he has time. :) Unfortunately I don't.
I am not making any assertions. These are fixed grammatical rules and there are no exceptions. Unfortunately this is not my teaching. If it were, I might have been more flexible. ALSO note that there have been numerous occasions of inaccuracies, and inconsistencies in copying things down especially with the dwindling of the numbers of authentic Coptic speakers..
Perhaps you can explain why it is covered in Arial shisha halevys book also. Do you know more than him also?
I can see my argument is not washing with you and to you it's just a mere argument. I respect that and I have nothing more to add..
I can assure you this construct occurs with the past or preterite as well. When I have a chance I'll get references for that also.
How is the 3rd future construct or any other future form the same as what we have been discussing? Am I missing something?
Unfortunately I don't have that book, but if you are right then such a Jewish linguist is mistaken..
Well said.. thank you
Cantor Mikhail is wrong then..
Oujai khan ebshois
Here we should agree to disagree. There is no excuse for people to pray without understanding. Those cantors have a greater burden in being role examples to the rest of the church. I have lived 28 years in Egypt and I attended some of Cantor Ibrahim's teaching sessions and I am aware of what he says about himself, and I believe we all know. It's therefore not a great surprise that the hierarchy of the church is pushing the Coptic out of the Coptic church.
I do not know that man, nor have I ever met him, but have only studied his book but I don't think his religion should impact anything.
To my knowledge he has dedicated years if not decades of his life as a coptologist, and is in fact one of the only coptology scholars to specialize in Bohairic and not just Sahidic.
But regardless of him, there are many biblical references, some of which he cites. But the biblical authors are incorrect too?
Please refer me to those Biblical references he links. Or even give me a snapshot of those two pages to be able to comment. I actually perused the first four chapters of the BOOK of Leviticus and couldn't find anything you were referring to earlier.
BTW my mention of him being Jewish was double-edged, first to point out I have researched him, and second that he isn't Egyptian. Second point is only weak but we do know that there are weak Egyptian Coptologists, but that's beside the point. I wasn't referring to his religion, so I apologise for your misunderstanding..