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A wonderful old hymn for the feast of nativity:

minasafwat
edited December 2014 in Hymns Discussion
can i find anyone heard this hymn before or knows anything about it?
https://soundcloud.com/goha_aswan/6svxistiy3lc

Comments

  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    http://tasbeha.org/hymn_library/view/1497

    I wonder where did the tune come from. The first paragraph is the fast way for most hymns like Pi-epnevma and Oran enshosho.

    Anyone recognizes this way for the second paragraph? i hear a lot of hazzat from hymns in there but none stick together to make one hymn in my head.  
  • minasafwat
    edited December 2014
    the tune from a very very old cantor between (1935to 1940) from upper egypt...of course there is some hazzat from other hymns as the usual of any long hymn like genethlion...i have already learnt it but i can tell it is a totally independent hymn in the spirit and performance..as my head used to listening to many old unused hymns
    (honestly) i know that none here have heard of it..my target is to draw attention about this beatiful hymn.
    AND HAPPY NEW YEAR FOR ALL
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    @minasafwat...just saying it's 'a very very old cantor from upper egypt' doesn't cut it for us here :-)
    Who is this cantor? Where is he from? Did he learn it from someone else? who did he teach it to and who taught it to this abouna in the recording (which sounds fairly new)?

    This hymns is NOT like genethlion. we have multiple sources for genethlion and there is no doubt about it. But to come with a way for a la7n that is documented (in books) to be lost....that's a little suspicious. 
  • minasafwat
    i don not really care if it cuts or no here..
    1_cantor:Saleeb.
    2_place:old institute of hymns in Assuit( older than el moharraq institute)
    3_time:1935to1940
    4_hymn was stopped to be learnt by an order from late bishop abba mikhail to unite hymns with cairo..
    5_hymns was delivered to abona el (abnoby) by fr.(boules)..the one who had the recording and one of the learners of the hymn
    6-again it is a totally independent hymn in spirit and performance(do you understand english?)
    7-have you listened to recordings of the early old cantors of upper egypt or alexandria (other than cairo cantors?) i totally doubt that..there are many hymns which are different from cairo..this is an example of a hymn which was not known to cairo cantors..
    8-why you take it so personally?..i did not never post the hymn for you ..
    9-the hymn for enjoing of our traditional old hymns not for praying in churches untill our cantors make an opnion of it.
    10-HAPPY NEW YEAR AGAIN.

  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    edited December 2014
    :-)
    bera7a showaya....I am not attacking you or the hymn....I am just asking for mroe information about the hymn. so thanks for the infor you have provided. 

    Happy new year to you too. 
  • minasafwat
    Give the hymn a chance and i know for sure that you will engoy it :)
  • RemnkemiRemnkemi
    Minasafwat,
    You wrote "5_hymns was delivered to abona el (abnoby) by fr.(boules)..the one who had the recording and one of the learners of the hymn"
    So did Fr Ibrahim Alabanoby record this recently? This does not sound like material from the 1940's. Most recordings before the 1960s had low analog quality unless it was recorded on high fidelity electromagnetic tape in a sound studio. This recording is very clear. I assume you (or someone else) enhanced it. Audio recording equipment before the 1960s was very hard to come by in Egypt. I don't recall seeing any audio recordings anywhere from Egypt, much less recordings from the Coptic Church. 

    Do you have any more hide hymns different from Cairo? I'm glad you provided this information and recording. It reiterates my disagreement with Ragheb Moftah's claims of Coptic hymnography before 1950's Cairo (specifically that Muallem Mikhail al Batanouni knew all the hymns and anything else was lost). Again thank you for providing the information. 

    And Nofri shai enrompi emberi to you too.
  • minasafwat
    edited December 2014
    i will explain to you again:
    1- the recording by fr.Abraam elabnoby was done in 2009 after about 3 years of academic study on the hymn...
    2-the original recording by cantor Saleeb(1935 to 1940) was of a vey very bad quality and was in an equipment called(bakara) i do not what bakara means in english..but i have heard it by myself..
    3-if you come in egypt you will notice that egypt is very far big to one cantor to know all of its hymns..i have recorded myself some hymns that are confined to upper egypt and you will never imagine  how cairo has destroyed  traditions held by generations from other provinces.
    4- there are many hymns that were unknown to the late cantor mikhail...many of them are already known such as:woniatk for dimas..ester magi for baramon of nativity,,evol hiten elkebeer..tawzi3 ayam kiahk...and i have many many far from cairo..
    5-i thank you that you are open minded
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    mina
    for 1, where can we find that study?
    for 2, having the recording on "bakara" is actually great. atleast the recording is there. is it not possible to get a recording of that?
    for 4, for these hymns, we have most of them from M Tawfik. If you have an older source, i would love to hear it. O-oniatk is special and i would love to hear the oldest recording you have, that goes for Ti-parthenos too.

  • minasafwat
    edited December 2014
    1-the study was on the oral material in the recording...it is very old and difficult to be heard so it needed about 3 years of study to be recorded as you hear it now..i will try to search or make  a music notation of the hymn for you.

    2- i can not handle you the old source after 3 hours from listening to the new recording...you need to listen well to the recording done by fr.abraam and i will give you the source later...but honestly i have it and i listened to it many times..

    3-the hymns recorded by cantor Tawfiq mentioned above are a live proof of what iam talking about...which were unique hymns for elmoharraq and were unknown to big cantor mikhail and other cairo cantors..

    4-regarding o-oniatk...you will be shocked by that:....this hymn was recorded in (higher institute of coptic studies) under supervision of doctor (Ragheb himself) by cantor Sameer el kommos y3koob...and i have the recording...the oldest recording was by cantor Wdi3 elkommos Matta in the period between(a1970 to 1975) and of course you have this one....and i have alot recorded by cantor wadi3 were unknown to cairo..
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    I don't need musical notes--i don't know how to read them. I want the old recording and I am sure all do. Don't worry, we have listened to many old recordings.

    For O-oniatk, C Wade3's recording is too old that the words can't be heard. If you have a better recording, i would love to hear it. Also i would like to hear that recording of C Sameer
  • RemnkemiRemnkemi
    Myself also. I would like to hear any additional recordings of Ooniatk. I would especially like to hear all the hymns you recorded found only in Upper Egypt. Can you make us a list of these hymns?


  • minasafwat
    ...that what i am talking about..the recording of o-oniatk is of a fine qulaity in coparison to the recording of ocio afshai...if you see o-oniatk is too old so you find ocio afshai meaningless :)).....you need to correct your concept about (old) recordings..
    the recording of o-oniatk of the higher institute by cantor Sameer is also old...however give me you e-mails and i will send it for you both.
  • ophadeceophadece
    minatasgeel said:

    http://tasbeha.org/hymn_library/view/1497


    I wonder where did the tune come from. The first paragraph is the fast way for most hymns like Pi-epnevma and Oran enshosho.

    Anyone recognizes this way for the second paragraph? i hear a lot of hazzat from hymns in there but none stick together to make one hymn in my head.  
    there's a spelling mistake in the second owmasf as the sema is wrongly replaced by a shai
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    Fixed.
  • minazaki
    I, like George and Mina, am very interested in hearing some of these recordings.

    God bless.
  • ophadeceophadece
    minatasgeel said:

    Fixed.

    Thank you @minatasgeel.. Happy New year.. nofri romba emwari..
    oujai khan ebshois
  • pp
    Fr. Abraam El Abnouby's Recording and Source for Ouciou afshai
  • dg920
    @minasafwat

    If you could please share any recordings you have of muallem wadee3 or muallem wissa please. It would be a blessing to hear from them. 
    If you also have Cantor Sameer, or Cantor Saleebs recordings of any rare hymns send them please. 

    Thank you.
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