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Marital problems and not healthy enviroment---Priest help needed

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  • irishpilgrimirishpilgrim
    Andrew8345,
    Sorry Andrew, I've had to come and go from time to time. I've also had more than my share of false fabrications, misrepresentations, defamations and cowardly, heretical censorships to contend with. I guess that this is an easier way to defend modern heresies than to respond to the valid traditional orthodox scriptural and patristic texts and commentaries that I intend to be the bases for my beliefs.

    In regard to Ludmilla's commentary  on "Ecumenism," I am traditional, orthodox (not modern, feminist, freudian, ecumenical) Coptic/Oriental orthodox. I therefore, probably do not agree with her views on Chalcedon, (although I am not qualified, nor comfortable debating the fine details of Christ's nature), as I haven't been able to agree with the unexplained modern gender and family theology of the English speaking Coptic bishops that I have spoken with regarding their undefined, seemingly innovative, heretical, divorce nurturing, gender and family theology.    

  • irishpilgrimirishpilgrim
    Stella,

    I guess the good news of your wonderful marriage recovery is too much for our freudian censors to handle. Marriage rebellions and divorce destroyed families and children are the meat that the new mercenary Coptic family "counselling" industry scavenges on. I haven't been able to find any information on Mr. Robinson's ministry/business/methods/etc. on the web. Christian Scripture based instruction is the only (rare) basis that I am aware of for a rebellious (American) divorcer, wife to humbly return to her family and role. Wandering American husbands pretty regularly make humble, apologetic returns to a good wife and disappointed children. You do not seem to be a demanding, challenging, domineering, provoking feminist warrior, as miracleseek's wife seems to be. Congratulations, you have the qualities that every husband and family is really seeking, especially when they have to recover from serious mistakes and set backs. 
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    @Irishpilgrim, "Stelle" was a bot, a fake account that is now deleted. 
  • irishpilgrimirishpilgrim
    Shame on you, Mina.

    Stella seems to have unknowingly followed St. Peter's instructions (First Peter 3:1-7) obediently and is proud to share how she received a "magical" restoration of her marriage. The Coptic Church could expect the same, if the Synod chooses to teach SS Peter's and Paul's gender and family theology instead Freud's heretical mercenary psychological speculations. All Copts have access to the text of Peter's and Paul's instructions in the Holy Bible. How can I obtain an English version of the Coptic Freudian/ psychological gender and family theology principles, that your beliefs and censorships seem to be based upon?
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    @irishpilgrim

    did you read my comment above: "Stelle" was a bot, a fake account that is now deleted. ??????????????????????????

    I don't know what weirder, you agreeing with the text of a bot/fake-account or the other way around? who's smarter than the other?!
  • mabsootamabsoota

    a 'bot' account is one generated automatically by a computer program.

    the admins can see by the information ('cookies' or whatever comes from the computer) that it is not being sent by a human being.

    the really good computer programs basically search all relevant terms and copy and paste stuff that is found.

    this is done automatically without a human seeing what is being posted.

  • ReturnOrthodoxyReturnOrthodoxy
    Im dying of laughter. Like I look like a madman dying of laughter at Mina's comment and IrishPilgrims response. I took a screenshot photo so that I can post it every time as evidence that Irishpilgrim has never actually read a post in his mind without prior knowledge that hes just going to comment on Freudian. 

    RO 
    (ready for an idiotic post on Freudian censorship now, IP. Lay it on me!!!)
  • irishpilgrimirishpilgrim
    edited August 2014
        It is no surprise that the fictional “robot,” Stella’s, gender and family theology is more Orthodox than the secret, unstated theology of Tasbeha forum’s trio of defaming worldwide moderators/censors. This is an original copycat heretic’s/ Morsi’s/ El-Sisi’s practice - to delete a post, and then falsely rant, that the deleted post is a “bot,” or is heresy. They have defamed my posts, of Traditional Orthodox Christian gender and family theology, many times, in this manner.

       [Deleted by Admin]
  • miracleseek
    Hi again, now my wife felt that she is a miserable..and she is now working on separation paper ...I have went to three priests..marriage counselor..her mind is made up..she suffered depression as a result of her work assignment..I am not trying to victimize myself, the guilt is not leaving me....i so wished that I would pass away rather than having my kids witness that day. I can't imagine my kids getting fathered by another man. Call me whatever, but the pain is unbearable especially these days when there are lots of incidents where step parents abuse the children. I am asking the lord always for forgiveness, but I am not sure if this becomes final what will be my account in front of him, if wife and the two kids have went astray. I begged her to keep me in the house to just be completely involved with the kids, but she wants to see her options of being remarried after 2 to 3 years from divorce. I need spiritual guidance on how to deal with her in a christian way.

    Any advice on how to parent the kids and even how to explain to them what's going on will be appreciated. I am a sinner but I only request God's mercy on my kids and my wife.

    Thanks
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    miracleseek said:

    Thanks all for your constant support ...I heard that bishop Paula is in North America these days..A priest adviced me to get the bishop's advice...does anyone know his schedule in Canada..or If I can contact him somehow...
    Thanks

    No! Stay away from Bishop Paula! You don't need him. He will only depress you. 
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    miracleseek said:

    Hi again, now my wife felt that she is a miserable..and she is now working on separation paper ...I have went to three priests..marriage counselor..her mind is made up..she suffered depression as a result of her work assignment..I am not trying to victimize myself, the guilt is not leaving me....i so wished that I would pass away rather than having my kids witness that day. I can't imagine my kids getting fathered by another man. Call me whatever, but the pain is unbearable especially these days when there are lots of incidents where step parents abuse the children. I am asking the lord always for forgiveness, but I am not sure if this becomes final what will be my account in front of him, if wife and the two kids have went astray. I begged her to keep me in the house to just be completely involved with the kids, but she wants to see her options of being remarried after 2 to 3 years from divorce. I need spiritual guidance on how to deal with her in a christian way.

    Any advice on how to parent the kids and even how to explain to them what's going on will be appreciated. I am a sinner but I only request God's mercy on my kids and my wife.

    Thanks

    Dear brother,

    I truly feel your pain. I really do. 

    I'm just curious, but is your wife Coptic? If so, where did you meet? At Church, convention? 

    Before we go any further, if what you've said is true, you are truly blameless in any of this. 

    What does your wife do for a living? what do you do? 

    I notice that Egyptians, certain types, - especially when they leave and go outside Egypt, they tend to become snotty nosed; owllad bashawat. They tend to look down on others a lot. I think its an inferiority complex - not sure. Many Copts outside of Egypt seem to be so competitive towards one another - its quite strange. Its not normal. I've even heard parents tell me that if their son doesn't end up in medicine (like them), they are losers. 

    That's what one Egyptian lady told me: "anyone who isn't a doctor, is a loser". That's when I was 20, and already doing my degree in basket weaving. 

    You need to tell me more about your wife bro... her upbringing.. etc. Its best to PM me.
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    Just remind your wife why she chose you. Remind her that you broke off and she insisted it would work before you get married. 

    You are innocent in this. 

    Don't worry about the kids, you are their father, nothing will ever change that. Their love towards you will be the same. 

    You seem like such a good Christian man. I don't understand this. You mention that your wife was doing the tasbeha even. You used to pray on the phone together before getting married.

    I'm so lost. Your wife seems like (at least the profile about her, i.e. Coptic, prayerful, tasbeha-loving etc) an ideal wife for any Coptic man. What the heck happened?

    Ask her:" What did you do with the woman I married??"
  • miracleseek
    Any help or tips will be greatly appreciated. Wife have said that she will be looking To get married. Even outside the faith as the orthdox church will not allow divorce. How should I deal with this? I might be selfish to think that after all the time I spend with my kids, so other man (not sure if even a decent chrisitian) will be fathering my kids. Your prayers are required.
    Thanks
  • mnc_hnnmnc_hnn
    From the information given in this thread, I'd say what you can do is pray and be the good father that you want to be. I am assuming if divorce is involved, there will be a custody agreement? When you have the kids with you, go to church, talk to them about things that you want them to know. But don't force religion on them...let it be a good experience so when they are older, they don't rebel. Instead, they feel empowered and have the choice to remain christian.

    It may be unfair that this is happening, but the kids still need their mother. Even if your wife remarries (which can't possibly happen that quickly? What kind of people are ready to take on stepchildren that fast?) don't feel that he is taking over your role. Be there when you expected to be there and your kids will be attached to you.
    I am not here to judge who is right and who is wrong in the relationship obviously, there are two sides to every story, but stay strong, don't lose hope in God. Because when all else fails and everyone lets you down, God is the only constant.
  • miracleseek
    Thanks mnc_hnn
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    Dear Brother,
    Perhaps it is best to speak to Anba Paula. He's not good for helping marriages - I don't find him that spiritual - he seems more like a politician, but in terms of divorce etc, he should know. The Church should know what your wife is doing.

    This is important for you. If she marries again and leaves you, she is committing adultery. 

    If that happens, you are also free to remarry in the Church. Hence, it would be in your interest to share this with your FoC. 

    What's really bothering me in this painful story is the fact that she is Coptic and she used to do the tasbeha. This makes NO sense. You'd think that someone who is Coptic would fear the Lord, would be careful with others, would not do this. 

    Talk to her parents.... tell them "What did I do to deserve her to divorce me?". Maybe her friends at work are influencing her to divorce. I noticed that about Egyptian women coming from Egypt at a late stage in their life.

    So, let's get this straight, you've done nothing wrong, and she wants to divorce you? You need to get her friends involved and the Church to talk to her.

    You are in my prayers
  • miracleseek
    I had my shares of mistakes. Like reacting to her controlling nature and reacting to her disrespect and sometimes forced confinement. I have accepted things humans shouldn't accept. I was never forceful in solving the problems. As Jesus would take care of the church, I was not forceful enough to seek marriage counseling help early on. She was always rejecting and I was accepting that rejection, when I shouldn't have. She is not listening to her parents and priests. She is proceeding.
    Thanks
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    My friend Miracleseek,

    I just wish to know why she is divorcing you. On what grounds? "I don't love you anymore" is not a ground for divorce. 

    How can someone have 2 kids with someone else out of hate? 

    This doesn't add up. It seems like its just a phase she's going through. 

    OK.. tell her you won't call your friends again, so long as she doesn't divorce you. How does that sound??

    Tell her: "Look, I love my friends,  but I won't contact them at all if that would make you happy and you don't divorce me".

    How on earth do u have time for friends anyway with 2 kids?? 

    What do you think?? Give it a shot?
  • miracleseek
    I gave all..i am actually using the 40 day love dare challenge coming from the christian marriage move fireproof...nothing..she is saying good for you but I need to start a newlife
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    Have you considered calling Dr. Nabil Baky? I highly recommend you contact him ASAP . He's in the states and an excellent marriage counsellor. 

    He will be able to understand what is in your wife's heart. It makes NO sense. Copts don't even believe in love before marriage anyway. What is this??

    My 2 cents is that she may have fallen in love with a guy before you and it didn't work out, and she's trying to forget about him by marrying you. It could be the case. Did she have any boyfriends before you, or before she got married?? 

    Dr Baky will understand what's in her head in 10 seconds. Just call him.


  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    edited March 2015
    http://dr.nabilbaky.com/ask-a-counselor/ ;

    -- i can't find his number, but call a priest to get it. He's based in the USA where you are anyway.

    He deals with these issues every day, but he's good at knowing what/why someone is divorcing their spouse more than the spouse.
  • girl4God
    edited March 2015
    Dear miracleseek, 

    I would be very concerned about leaving your children with someone who is not in a healthy psychological state, she sounds and may be very mentally unwell. If something happened to your children while in her care - if she wasn't watching or her actions were driven by mental illness, or if she behaved violently towards the children, you would not forgive yourself. 

    Violence can have devastating psychological effects on children and adolescents and they will suffer later on. It has to be understood that neither of you are allowed to behave in a physically or verbally abusive manner towards one another (or anyone else) in front of the children. This is not an option and it is not for her to negotiate. If you are unable to provide them with a stable environment you may consider them spending time with their grandparents.  

    I think it is extremely important to involve her parents and the Orthodox church, take her parents with you to see a priest and address the situation, invite your wife to come with you, if she declines you still go with her parents to the priest. Make sure the children are in a safe environment (e.g. with your parents).

    There is no such thing as forced confinement, you are a grown man, if you return to find important papers shredded then take important papers with you. It certainly  sounds like you have been too submissive in your marriage giving in to her demands because it was easier than taking a stand for what you know, and what the Bible teaches, is the right way to treat one another. In this respect you are equally responsible for your present situation.

    I pray that God blesses your situation and that you are able to reach the best possible outcome for your children. God bless 
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    girl4God said:

    Dear miracleseek, 

    I would be very concerned about leaving your children with someone who is not in a healthy psychological state, she sounds and may be very mentally unwell. If something happened to your children while in her care - if she wasn't watching or her actions were driven by mental illness, or if she behaved violently towards the children, you would not forgive yourself. 

    Violence can have devastating psychological effects on children and adolescents and they will suffer later on. It has to be understood that neither of you are allowed to behave in a physically or verbally abusive manner towards one another (or anyone else) in front of the children. This is not an option and it is not for her to negotiate. If you are unable to provide them with a stable environment you may consider them spending time with their grandparents.  

    I think it is extremely important to involve her parents and the Orthodox church, take her parents with you to see a priest and address the situation, invite your wife to come with you, if she declines you still go with her parents to the priest. Make sure the children are in a safe environment (e.g. with your parents).

    There is no such thing as forced confinement, you are a grown man, if you return to find important papers shredded then take important papers with you. It certainly  sounds like you have been too submissive in your marriage giving in to her demands because it was easier than taking a stand for what you know, and what the Bible teaches, is the right way to treat one another. In this respect you are equally responsible for your present situation.

    I pray that God blesses your situation and that you are able to reach the best possible outcome for your children. God bless 
    To be totally honest with you, I've looked at all angles in this story, and I have come to the same conclusion. Her actions are not normal. Not that divorcing someone means you are "mad", but her rational behind it makes no sense; compounded by her Orthodox past of being a devout Christian, hence, I also get the impression that your wife is a bit unstable too. 

    Your best bet is to go to Dr Baky, he is also a psychiatrist (i believe). 

    Good luck!!

  • miracleseek
    The only reason that I gave in to her demands is her threats and the destruction..things I was trying to prevent my kids from as well as protect her career.all back fires...I ask the lord for forgiveness and repentance
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    edited March 2015
    miracleseek said:

    The only reason that I gave in to her demands is her threats and the destruction..things I was trying to prevent my kids from as well as protect her career.all back fires...I ask the lord for forgiveness and repentance

    We have to keep things into perspective. In marriage - problems happens. What we don't do is divorce over them. Falling out of love is just an example of a problem that you don't get divorced over. You just fall in love again somehow.  You don't get divorced over stuff like that. A little girl has a crush on a guy and then forgets about him after watching Oprah. One expects a grown, mature woman to behave differently with her emotions and responsibilities towards her husband, than a little girl who is having a teenage crush.

    All this is to tell you that you are innocent in this. You have understand that. Divorce is a sin and for a reason like this, it is absurd. 

    It is very important not to feel guilty by any of this. If you are worried about the spiritual health of your kids with respect to such a situation, well, you are innocent before the Lord. I believe that. What on earth can you do? Don't worry, just live your life as righteous as you possibly can. That's it.

    If I've understand everything correctly, you've been a very good husband. But as a few people have suggested here, I think she needs help with a psychiatrist or spiritual councillor. 
  • miracleseek
    Thanks for your help and support..i lack guidance even to seperate in a civil way..all I can see is someone who is fighting to destroy the family..saying that God will forgive..and now she wants all the money to sustain the lifestyle
  • miracleseek
    I need serious prayers
  • ReturnOrthodoxyReturnOrthodoxy
    Strength, MiarcleSeek! I've been reading your posts and those of everyone responding. I have been an will continue to pray for you. I can only imagine your pain. I hopeGod gives you peace. Take it day by day and continue to reach out to us and to those around you who can support you.

    Ray
  • miracleseek
    I appreciate the support and prayers. It is now a constant emotional battle as I am reminded that there will be a better husband and her and the kids will be staying with him. I said I will love to the last day of my life and the answer was "even with I am with another man"..i need tips on how to cope. The lord is merciful, I need to never lose sight of that. Please pray for me
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    That was her answer? "Will you still love me even if I am with another man"? 

    Im just curious, but what aspects of her character did you like ? What attracted you to her and made you feel that :"yes! This is the mother I want to have for my kids!"??

    I know in Egypt, virginity is a huge deal - and I get the impression that this was a huge thing : "Well, she's a good girl, she's had no boyfriends, no sexual history, and so she'll be a faithful wife".

    But other than that, what else attracted you?? 

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