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Dating
I have been a member of the Coptic Orthodox Church since 1995, before I joined the Church I got a divorce.
I would like to date but I also would like to know what the Church teaching is concerning dating.
I would like to date but I also would like to know what the Church teaching is concerning dating.
Comments
To make things short the church is against dating it is for getting to know each other and that’s all.
I was baptised in 1996, so you are my father. I had been baptised Catholic, and civil divorced in 1980. This may make a difference. Before baptism I asked my bishop about conditions for possible remarriage. As I recall and understand his answer, I was told that I would have to qualify for a Coptic ecclesiastical divorce or annulment before I would be able to remarry. This would involve interviews with my exwife, etc. to prove the grounds that are necessary. I think you are in poorly charted waters, but I would think that you should cross the divorce/ annulment bridge before trying to carry any more complications. To disagree with George_Mina, I don’t think that some of us are ever “old enough to know not to act on pure emotion,” unless you “know” much more than David the Prophet. And “knowing” is not enough.I think one of the old desert fathers told his disciple that you are never too old to fall to this temptation by Satan. I would not take a chance, because the stakes can become very high, very quickly, before I had the permission to remarry in hand. And I know those who are very troubled because they married outside the Church.
On the other hand, your conditions may be free and clear. Ask your FOC to start, then, only your bishop may handle these matters. It will probably not be a quick and easy process. Pray for me.
You have most helpful and I will be speaking with my FOC and who knows maybe I might never get remarried and as far as temptation is concerned I do agree you are never to old to fall into that trap so I have learned not to put temptation in my path and should it rear its ugly head I pray.
One thing I will say is that it is not easy being alone.
Thank You ,
You have most helpful and I will be speaking with my FOC and who knows maybe I might never get remarried and as far as temptation is concerned I do agree you are never to old to fall into that trap so I have learned not to put temptation in my path and should it rear its ugly head I pray.
One thing I will say is that it is not easy being alone.
Hi,
I think there could be some misunderstanding here.
For a lot of us, we associate dating with sex or immoral relationships. However, for many westerners, the term "to date someone" may mean to just "court" or get to know.
Everything depends on your intention and what the motives of your heart are.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with build friendships with members of the opposite sex - in the event that this could lead to a fruitful relationship. This is quite obvious, so why are you asking?
I think concerning marriage, it would be prudent to be friends with whomever you are considering. Friendship isn't easy, even with people of the same sex; but you should be friends with the person. You will have to accept that no one's life is perfect, and in the framework of an honest friendship, these imperfections are manifested and expressed in a caring and nonjudgmental environment.
I understand what you are saying - there maybe ONE particular girl (or guy) that you are interested in knowing - so you may ask out.
In any case, whether you have lots of friends in common on or not, try to focus on marriage.
When the Church tells people (especially the youth) to focus on marriage, I think for a LOT of women (and some men) they take this advice and focus on getting married. I don't think this is the completely right way to take it. When the Church says "Focus on marriage" - it means focus on sanctification. Focus on leading yourself into Holiness. Marriage is Holy. Before the entire friendship starts, the intent in our hearts and desire to live in Holiness has to be there - marriage, for the sake of marriage, without any desire for purity, holiness and sanctification of any sort, is really odd.
Good luck!
:)
When I talk of dating it is with the intention of one day getting married. I already have male friends but not one with whom I would consider marring. I am not looking for perfection but there has to be more than just friendship and lack of a better of word there should be a 'spark' as well.
in many churches, people get to know prospective partners through their families, and for those whose families are not in the church, the church should take on that role of taking care of them.
don't give personal details on line, but u could reflect on these questions.
There is another touchy issue that my bishop mentioned when I asked about remarriage. As I recall, he stated that I would need to show that I have made attempts to reconcile my marriage, if that is possible. There are many technical details, all based on the Holy Bible, that have to be cleared. It is lots of seemingly unpleasant work for all who are involved. If you don't speak Arabic, there could be more challenges. Pray and try and see how far God opens the door.
If you don't feel that your priest can answer all of your questions, you might consider asking, in the Questions and Answers pages of the Coptic Diocese of the Southern United States: I was divorced before my baptism. What are the detailed requirements and procedures for me to obtain permission to remarry?
It's so frustrating, like do we become hermits or something??!
So I have decided to "let go and let God" Pray for me
Thank you I finally have someone who can understand what it is like being orthodox and in a small church. I have to agree with you it is hard to find someone in my Church and most of the men that I meet if not all are not in anyway interested in going to church and are definitely carnal minded and if they don't have that on their mind they come with to much baggage. Everybody has a past but really!!
So I have decided to "let go and let God" Pray for me
Thank you too Agape47! Lord help us because "The godly man ceases!" "All men are liars!" And like yeh, really??!! All of the benefits and blessings God gives to us daily and yet this is the only answer men have??!! To try and disprove His existence and oppress His creation??!!! Somethings gotta give!
Please pray for me also
Pray for me
I've not checked in for several days and I'm not sure that I answered all of your comments to me. Yes, in many ways, we "foreign speaking" newcomers to the Coptic Church do carry some handicaps. But, appreciate all of the gossip we miss. Finally, where else is this much traditional orthodox christian life even available? I don't know of any reasonably close alternative to meet my dire spiritual needs.
I've tried for many years to understand the family and spiritual challenges faced by "modern" unwillingly civil divorced orthodox christians. I don't believe that there are any solid spiritual solutions in any of the orthodox jurisdictions that I am aware of. The liberal/ ecumenical/ feminist experiments seem to usually fail miserably. These have nearly destroyed the traditional patriarchal gender and family commandments and traditions upon which nearly 2000 years of all christian cultures were built. I think that the whole truth of Christian marriage and life was given to us by St. Peter in 1 Peter 2:9-5:14. God protected Sarah and blessed Abraham, even when she obeyed her frightened husband and joined Pharaoh's harem (Gen. 12:10-20); and AGAIN, protected and blessed them from King Abimelech (See, Gen. 20:1-18). Which certainly was the "message to accept suffering" that was given by St. Peter's "son Mark" to the original "Coptic" Christians. See, 1 Peter 5:13. Straight out, God hates divorce ... and saying "Everyone who does evil is good in the sight of the Lord ... . Mal. 2:16, 17. So, God's orthodox divorce and remarriage laws should be very narrow and strict. It would not be wise to consider remarriage before being certain of all the Coptic Church's requirements for remarriage in regard to your specific previous divorce facts. I wish that I could be a member of a small congregation where none of our children were life long victims of broken, civil divorced "fatherless" families. Sadly, most of the young Coptic family civil divorces in the U.S. are caused by bold, "modern" worldly (TV) catechized rebellious, disobedient young Coptic wives/ mothers. Whom the U.S. mercenary divorce industry (which includes the dues paying, fee receiving "christian" freudian counsellors) temporarily rewards generously for betraying their Coptic marriage liturgy promises, their husband, their children and their extended families. All without any apparent spiritual opposition from the U.S. Coptic bishops, clergy and local "big" (I hope not "small") church communities.
If "God hates divorce," certainly His Church would not condone, accept and facilitate it. But, our God eventually gives us everything we need to serve Him as He requires.
With patience and persistence (and some obstinacy) I have been able to obtain reasonable spiritual understanding of most of my questions about our orthodox church. I'm still waiting for some other understandings.
May God bless you. Please pray for me.
Suffering makes us humble irishpilgrim. Then once we are humble we become good listeners. Not only to ourselfs but also to others. When you were married you were the priest of the family and like a priest you took the confession of your wife and got to know her weaknesses. Not to treat the weaknesses like a stranger with distain but like a friend with intimacy. You were also the leader and needed to take the lead in anything you wanted; respect, honour, etc. The male has to be strong to accept the weakness.
http://www.suscopts.org/scyc/cpar/overview.html
God bless.
[quote author=Purity2 link=topic=13379.msg157383#msg157383 date=1341593617]
Yeh, Agape47, my sister in Christ our Beloved Lord; I don't think people who live in large communitys really understand the challenges of a small Church community. I mean who r we going to date here?? There r only Gentile men and they r mostly carnal minded!! So, like u said we just end up being alone. Our failed marriges to Gentiles proves we need to be with Spiritual partners, like us; but where are they??!!
It's so frustrating, like do we become hermits or something??!
Suffering makes us humble irishpilgrim. Then once we are humble we become good listeners. Not only to ourselfs but also to others. When you were married you were the priest of the family and like a priest you took the confession of your wife and got to know her weaknesses. Not to treat the weaknesses like a stranger with distain but like a friend with intimacy. You were also the leader and needed to take the lead in anything you wanted; respect, honour, etc. The male has to be strong to accept the weakness.
Thank u so much for that Joshuaa!
Thank u from your sisters in Christ!
I don't wish to be rude, but I'm sooo very tired of alot of empty words. We need to heal and get some real love in this, godly love for all as Jesus teaches.
A part of today's lectionary states: [center]Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker, vessel, and being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered.[/center]
I don't know about the divorce/remarriage thing but there is a retreat set up by the Southern Diocese to kind of help people with this problem (finding a spouse when there is such a small pool of candidates):
http://www.suscopts.org/scyc/cpar/overview.html
God bless.
[quote author=Purity2 link=topic=13379.msg157383#msg157383 date=1341593617]
Yeh, Agape47, my sister in Christ our Beloved Lord; I don't think people who live in large communitys really understand the challenges of a small Church community. I mean who r we going to date here?? There r only Gentile men and they r mostly carnal minded!! So, like u said we just end up being alone. Our failed marriges to Gentiles proves we need to be with Spiritual partners, like us; but where are they??!!
It's so frustrating, like do we become hermits or something??!
Thank u for the 'heads up' teji afilo! God willing me n my sistas will be there!
[center]God bless you all!!![/center]
Irishpilgrim can you answer my question as to why me not speaking Arabic would be a problem?
time. its all about principles of learning. Thanks a lot for giving us free learning advices.
I have had to be away from the forum for awhile, so I am late answering you. I'll try to explain my understanding, from speaking with my bishop before my baptism and from having a special interest in the whole issue of the integrity of general Orthodox and specific Coptic marriage and family theology and practice. If you want to seek to remarry in the Coptic Church after a divorce, you have to have your previous marriage and divorce examined in fine detail at different levels of the Church's administration, including your priest, bishop and the Synod. The Synod level examination and approval, or rejection, is handled by the office of Anba Boula in Egypt. Approval, or forgiveness, of your divorce involves all of the theological principles against divorce in the Holy Bible. These questions can become very technical because the Church shouldn't violate God's Commandments, and should help us obey them. I believe that, practically speaking, at some point before forgiveness of your divorce, the issues would have to be discussed, in speaking or writing, in Arabic because that is the language of familiar, precise, technical discussions and transactions in the Coptic Church. It is possible, depending on the details of your marriage and divorce that the process could be, very skillfully, or prayerfully, handled in written English. I doubt that the final approval for remarriage in the Church would be in English. But, everything is possible with God. This is the non-Arabic speaking handicap that I am referring to.
So, if you think that someday you may want to remarry, I suggest that (before you kindle the fires of romance), you ask your priest, or bishop, to help you obtain permission to remarry in the Coptic Church. Go through the process, including re-asking for help as many times as necessary. Obtain the stamped and sealed written (probably at least partially in Arabic) certificate of ecclesiastical divorce and permission to marry. Only then, with the help of your father of confession, take the first steps of marriage aimed romance (dating).
I hope this helps, or that someone else has a shortcut. God bless you. Pray for me.
Thank you for your advice and explanation, I have a better understanding.
Pray for me