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Stigmata

henrik.hank
edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
What does the Orthodoxes believe when it comes to physical/material Stigmata (The Catholic Padre Pio is a good example)?

Comments

  • HolmesHolmes
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    Orthodox do not recognize the stigmata. We see no reason that a person (no matter how 'pious') would manifest the wounds of Christ. The stigmata is a recent development within the Roman church and has not been documented at all until the case of Francis of Assisi in the 13th century (if memory serves correctly).
  • mabsootamabsoota
    i don't think there are any recorded cases of orthodox stigmata.
    but i, myself would not comment on the catholic cases; who can tell whether it is a miracle or a bit of hysteria?
    it would be bad to get it wrong, so better not comment.
  • HolmesHolmes
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    I don't think they are miraculous, or at least, they are as miraculous as the 'holy' fire in Jerusalem. I think it is a means to establish legitimacy of one church at the expense of undermining the others. It's something along the lines of 'See, our Church has this miracle and yours doesn't, thus we are the True Church and you are not.'
  • henrik.hank
    [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12368.msg144923#msg144923 date=1316484625]
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    I don't think they are miraculous, or at least, they are as miraculous as the 'holy' fire in Jerusalem. I think it is a means to establish legitimacy of one church at the expense of undermining the others. It's something along the lines of 'See, our Church has this miracle and yours doesn't, thus we are the True Church and you are not.'

    any official writing on this issue?
  • HolmesHolmes
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    [quote author=henrik.hank link=topic=12368.msg144996#msg144996 date=1316642358]
    [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12368.msg144923#msg144923 date=1316484625]
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    I don't think they are miraculous, or at least, they are as miraculous as the 'holy' fire in Jerusalem. I think it is a means to establish legitimacy of one church at the expense of undermining the others. It's something along the lines of 'See, our Church has this miracle and yours doesn't, thus we are the True Church and you are not.'

    any official writing on this issue?


    What would constitute 'official writing' for you?
  • dzheremi
    Not that this is the be all and end all of official writings, but I couldn't find anything on orthodoxebooks.org, which is a collection various mostly Coptic books and pamphlets, searchable by subject. The only result when I searched for "stigmata" was a translation of the homilies of St. John Chrysostom on the letter to the Romans that uses this word in the original Greek in parenthesis next to the translation, "the marks", referring to the marks of Christ from the nails. That's where the word comes from, but since the phenomenon is not Orthodox, I don't think you'll find too many Orthodox writers writing about it (particularly among the non-Chalcedonians; there is probably more among the Chalcedonians although they also do not accept it, because they were in union with Rome for a lot longer than the OO and as such have more direct contact with and knowledge of Roman happenings than do most OO).
  • HolmesHolmes
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    I find that the silence among the Orthodox about the stigmata is more telling then any 'official writing'. Why? Because if the stigmata did exist within Orthodox circles it would have been written about, just as it is written about within Catholic circles. Why would the Orthodox bother writing about something 'miraculous' that does not even occur within the context of the Church? In her 2000 year history, there have been no saints that have displayed the stigmata. The fact that it only began to appear in the 12th-13th century, I feel, speaks for itself.
  • henrik.hank
    [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12368.msg145030#msg145030 date=1316703034]
    The fact that it only began to appear in the 12th-13th century, I feel, speaks for itself.

    ?
  • HolmesHolmes
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    [quote author=henrik.hank link=topic=12368.msg145125#msg145125 date=1316887045]
    [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=12368.msg145030#msg145030 date=1316703034]
    The fact that it only began to appear in the 12th-13th century, I feel, speaks for itself.

    ?


    You wanna expand on that a bit?
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