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Mentanias?

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  • imikhailimikhail
    Dear Unworthy1

    At the deacon's command "Worship God in fear and trembling" we are supposed to prostrate completely to the ground, however, not on .Sundays or Saturdays.

    The other command is in Greek "Tas ke falas emon ..." meaning to just bow the head.

    Thanks
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    I am saying that after the deacon says "worship God in fear..." the liturgy book instructs that the people "bow their head" it says nothing about prostrating. If by "bow the head" it means prostrate than it is also written in the prayer of submission to the Father to "bow their head" but that is after communion and you said that we should not prostrate after communion. So either everywhere else in the liturgy we should not be prostrating or we should because the instruction uses the same language. Why interpret it one way during one part and another during another part?

    Fr. Peter, please clear my confusion.
  • imikhailimikhail
    I am not sure about the correctness of the instructions. The word "wosht" in Coptic means prostrate. The Greek word "falas" means head. The two commands are different in meaning.

    Thanks.
  • mabsootamabsoota
    yes, imikhail, i was specifically watching out for this in church today, we did bow our heads after the Holy Communion after the deacon said to do that, and we bow/sit/kneel only before it. no heads right to the ground, though.

    from what i understand we bow (prostrate if not weekend) at the absolution of the servants ('abeedak khodam hatha il yaum),
    at the prayer of the descent of the Holy Spirit ('worship God in fear and trembling'),
    after the fraction prayer when the deacon says 'Bow your heads to the Lord. Tas kefalas emon to Kyrio
    eklinate.
    إحنوا رؤوسكم للرب'
    after Holy Communion, the same words are used, but we don't bow right to the ground for the reasons we have already explained. the tradition passed down to us is not 100% contained in the kholagy (service book).

    we can also bow at other times, unless the deacon has said 'stand up for prayer'.
  • imikhailimikhail
    Whether it is a weekday or Sunday, there should be no prostration at the command "Bow your heads".
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    So what is the difference between bowing your head and a prostration?

    Also, like I have said before I have never seen it in any liturgy book instructing the people to prostrate. . .it is always written bow your head.
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    I would say that to bow the head is a mark of respect while to prostrate is a mark of humility.
  • imikhailimikhail
    Translation makes a difference. Again, the word "wosht" always means prostrate.

    There are other words that are specific for "bow". Unfortunately, we have either an inaccurate translation or inaccurate instructions.
  • Natalie INatalie I
    Hello everyone happy Palm Sunday :) and thanks for this discussion! but I now have another question I am confused as to why we should prostrate weekdays but not weekends? Can some please clarify this?
    Thank you and God bless
  • Unknown
    [quote author=2Corinthians5:7 link=topic=11255.msg136181#msg136181 date=1303019109]
    Hello everyone happy Palm Sunday :) and thanks for this discussion! but I now have another question I am confused as to why we should prostrate weekdays but not weekends? Can some please clarify this?
    Thank you and God bless


    I had the same question, why not matanias on saturday? My dad said one of the reasons is that the Jews are having their Holy day then on saturday, but I don't know what this has to do with us?

    >>??
  • imikhailimikhail
    Great question that needs lots of space to discuss but I will make it brief.

    The Church honors the Sabbath of the Old Testament, as it honors Sunday, in which God finished creation and honored it through the various rituals of the church or the Old Testament.

    In the New  Testament we stopped the rituals but continued to honor the day. In the Church history we read that the early Church, including the See of Alexandria, to honor Saturday by celebrating the Eucharist and it was not until several centuries when Sunday started to take over.

    That is why you find the rituals are the same for both Sunday and Saturday.
  • Natalie INatalie I
    Thank you imikhail :) I am so unaware of the things we do in our church I've been doing mentanias on both Saturday and Sunday for so long glad this has been clarified thanks again and God bless
  • mabsootamabsoota
    can i ask something a bit off topic?
    i know we read the paschal reading instead of the agpeya during Holy week, but do we still pray from the agpeya? i mean then read the paschal readings instead of the psalms but still pray the thanksgiving prayer, psalm 50 and the metanias?
    not that i pray all the hours.... i struggle to manage 1, but i want to do it properly!
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    I think that you/we should pray from the Paschal hours and not the Agpeya during this week. I have just come home from praying all the evening hours and there is a special atmosphere about the prayers which have been composed as a coherent text for the whole week.

    Of course I don't think there is a problem wth praying the thanksgiving prayers, but I think it best to pray an hour from the Paschal Hours rather than the Ageya at this time. They are all available online in the useful Pascha e-book.

    Father Peter
  • TITLTITL
    We're supposed to replace the agpeya with "thok te tee gom" 12 times in the morning/evening. I think the introduction (thanksgiving and psalm 50) can be prayed too.
  • mabsootamabsoota
    aah, then i am missing something. i have the paschal readings (in a leaflet from a church) but not the prayers. i suppose the prayers allow for metanias. i will look for a prayer book.
    thanks
    :)
  • mabsootamabsoota
    hi, i looked here:
    http://www.stmary-church.com/paschap2.pdf
    but still don't understand some things.
    please excuse my ignorance, i am usually at work during pascha and don't always manage even Good friday, so until this year i didn't realise we don't pray the agpeya during Holy week.

    i understand the book is what is prayed in church, but do we just pray it a bit at a time (it is long) during the working day when we have a break, and where are the metanias? i mean like 41 like in the agpeya?
  • imikhailimikhail
    I do not see a problem you praying the Ajbeya if you cannot attend the Church.
  • mabsootamabsoota
    thanks, i sort of am anyway, reading the Bible readings for Pascha instead of the psalms.
    but do the other people get to do metanias? i mean if they don't do the agpeya?
  • imikhailimikhail
    The matanias are done in conjunction with any prayer whether it is Pascha, Ajpeya or just personal prayers.

    So, you can mix your ajpeya prayer with few matanias if you can.
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