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Sacrament of Baptism
Hi all
I am just wondering why we completely immerse a baby in water during baptism,
and why does the Catholic church just pour the water over the babies head
I am just wondering why we completely immerse a baby in water during baptism,
and why does the Catholic church just pour the water over the babies head
Comments
or if John the Baptist just poured the water over his head
What do you guys think
The Roman Catholic Church changed their practice in the Middle Ages.
Father Peter
When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
Mark 1: 9-10
It came to pass in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized by John in the Jordan. And immediately, coming up from the water, He saw the heavens parting and the Spirit descending upon Him like a dove.
Coming up from the water mean He was first down in the water.
It's also about the symbolism; we die with Him, and rise in HIM.
When doing Baptism the person should be immerse in running cold water first (Ie river?), and if there is no running cold water available it should be done in a tub , and if there is no tub available water can be poured 3 times over the head in the name of (Father, Son, Holy Spirit).
Concerning Baptism. And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.
Romans 6
4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection
Submersion in water must be the most correct way during Baptism. I know people who on the first opportunity requested to be baptized again after they learned their parents were not sure that they were immersed in baptismal water or they were told they were baptized by pouring or washing, it is that important.
GBU
baptizo [Greek]= total submersion, person buried in water
Romans 6
4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection
Submersion in water must be the most correct way during Baptism. I know people who on the first opportunity requested to be baptized again after they learned their parents were not sure that they were immersed in baptismal water or they were told they were baptized by pouring or washing, it is that important.
GBU
Good stuff here! These weren't orthodox people, right? since: one baptism, etc.
these people cant be orthodox to have been baptized more than once.
But personally I think that no church should allow anybody to be baptized more than once.
What do you guys think?
thank you everyone for the replies
and for the amazing quotes from the bible
thanks!
If you are a Catholic and baptised, would you get baptised agains if you become orthodox?
God bless, Pray for me,
Cyril
I have a question concerning baptism.
If you are a Catholic and baptised, would you get baptised agains if you become orthodox?
God bless, Pray for me,
Cyril
Yes, thats correct.
I have a question concerning baptism.
If you are a Catholic and baptised, would you get baptised agains if you become orthodox?
God bless, Pray for me,
Cyril
actually, i have heard that it only needs to be done if the person was not baptized immersed in water.....because there are many churches lead by the Catholic church but not catholic in nature.
I don't know but this seems a little much.
Did H.H Pope Shenouda III or Pope Kyrillos VI say anything about it?
God bless, Pray for me,
Cyril
What do you mean a Christian is a Christian?
We say we are one body, one nature.
I don't really see the need for baptism within the Christian churches.
I know this may start some arguments but I don't intend for that.
All I am trying to say is we "are" one body, one nature, one essence.
God bless, Pray for me,
Cyril
And which churches are all one?
Which Fathers of the Church are you basing your comments on?
hi. it was God's will that Christians should all be united and share the same faith.
but some groups have changed the faith that was handed down to us by the disciples and added wrong teachings.
this is what we mean by 'heresy', it's a teaching that is so wrong that it is dangerous and we don't allow people to teach that in church. those people are given a change to change their mind, but if they don't, they are sent out of the church.
this is 'excommunication'. saint paul did this in 1 corinthians, because a man said it was ok to live a sexually immoral life. the man eventually repented and stopped the wrong relationship and was received back into the church again in 2 corinthians.
so, some people who consider that they are Christians, think it's not important to receive Holy Communion. of course it would be weird if they had communion with us as we receive Holy Communion believing it is the Body of Jesus Christ, and they would receive it thinking it's a tasty bit of bread and wishing they got a bigger bit. :o
so you see, it would not be appropriate to take the Holy Communion together.
now, these people might have some correct beliefs about God mixed with their wrong teaching.
they may say that Jesus is God, the Son of God who died and rose again so that people can be reconciled with God.
so their beliefs are partly Christian, and it would be rude to turn around to them and say 'you are not Christians'.
we also know that God works in the life of people to bring them closer to Him, and He certainly works outside of the boundaries of the orthodox church. but just because someone has an experience of God doesn't automatically make them a Christian with all the correct teaching. if someone confesses belief in God, we check out their beliefs (usually the priest does this), instruct them to correct any wrong teaching and then baptise them into the church.
if they were baptised before into a Christian group that has partially wrong beliefs, that is not the same as being baptised into an orthodox church where we teach the things that the disciples and bishops handed down to us.
so what happens is that the priests and bishops check out what church the person came from, and if the beliefs are very closely the same, the person may get chrismated (zeit mayroon) instead of baptised. usually the beliefs are too different, so the person is baptised and then chrismated afterwards. if you are born into the orthodox church, this happens when you are a baby, so that you can start taking Holy Communion straight away.
rebaptism is not wrong, as some of the early Christians were baptised by john the baptist (a general jewish baptism of repentance) before being baptised again by the apostles (acts 19). if someone's church has some wrong teachings, then the baptism isn't quite right and they have it done again.
if we didn't have these strict rules, people could come into our churches, say they were the same as us, take Holy Communion, lead sunday school etc. etc, and then start teaching people the wrong stuff (heresies) and people in church would get confused and pass the wrong teaching down to their children and grandchildren.
there are lots of books and websites that give more teaching on this, but it's a lot of reading!
if you look at the list of saints that we commemorate at the start of the liturgy (the absolution prayer which starts with ''abeedak ya Rab', 'your servants, Lord' and asks for absolution from the mouths of the saints and the patriarch (baba shenouda) and from the priest) this list includes the saints whose teaching we should read.
there is a very early Christian document called the 'didache' or 'didaskalia' depending on which language is used, that's from 200AD or earlier that describes much of the practices of the early church.
these practices (traditions) have been handed down to the priests and bishops of our church; this is how they know how to instruct us.
hope this helps, it's a bit long!
:)