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The Holy Mass

MShehataMShehata
edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church
Hi
I am just wondering why we are supposed to only go around the altar holding the cross,
instead of the cross and the gospel together?
(When we go around the altar opposite to the priest in between the different readings)

Comments

  • egyboyegyboy
    first of all,
    WELCOME TO TASBEHA!!!

    and to answer your question:
    In the Holy Liturgy, during the readings, the deacon should be holding BOTH the Cross and the Gospel while responding inaudibly to the priest's litanies as they go around the Holy Altar. We have always done it this way in my church and in any other church i have been too.

    please pray for me and my weakness
  • geomike
    No, Marenhos epchois, we don't hold the Gospel only the cross and then we go around the altar three times. I forgot why it is only the cross, but i will get you a source shortly.
  • pp
    [quote author=geomike link=topic=11084.msg134036#msg134036 date=1301023447]
    No, Marenhos epchois, we don't hold the Gospel only the cross and then we go around the altar three times. I forgot why it is only the cross, but i will get you a source shortly.

    geomike is most likely correct. I believe the reason is in 1 Corinthians 15 where St. Paul states that without Christ dying, our faith and preaching would be in vain. It could be symbolic of how everything revolves around Christ who was willing to die for us. The Gospel (at least I think) should only be held during the Litany of the Gospel and by the Gospel reader...that's it. But that's just my opinion...and most likely what the Church used to do. However, currently, most churches hold both a Cross and Gospel for everything which could be because the Gospel is the Good News which the apostles preach off from. These are just personal contemplations and I am not using any sources so don't quote me on anything.
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    This has been discussed in some depth just last week here...

    http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php/topic,10928.0.html

    Just the cross should be used and the deacon's prayers should be said quietly as part of a conversation of prayer with the priest.

    Father Peter
  • MShehataMShehata
    Thank you Marenhos Epchois
    and thanks for all the replies
  • MShehataMShehata
    Because in my church it has been thought of as a part of the rite to hold both the cross and the gospel
    But I now know that is not right

    thanks
  • Cyril97Cyril97
    Hi,
    WELCOME to Tasbeha.org!
    If you want, you can look in Anba Matteous' book.
    It says: while holding the cross. (Not quoting)
    God bless, Pray for me,
    Cyril
  • copticuser20copticuser20
    [quote author=MShehata link=topic=11084.msg134116#msg134116 date=1301081256]
    Because in my church it has been thought of as a part of the rite to hold both the cross and the gospel
    But I now know that is not right

    thanks

    yeah that's what it became in most churches. they added the gospel so kids can have a part in the liturgy. now it became the "correct" way by most deacons even though it is wrong.
  • geomike
    This kind of stuff makes me really mad. I believe that one day the diocese or whoever controls it, should not let anyone dress as a deacon unless he qualifies. I know so many deacons that just put on the tonia to make everybody think they are so holy and they know so many hymns. It is a huge problem that needs to be addressed in church.
  • copticuser20copticuser20
    [quote author=geomike link=topic=11084.msg134129#msg134129 date=1301095201]
    This kind of stuff makes me really mad. I believe that one day the diocese or whoever controls it, should not let anyone dress as a deacon unless he qualifies. I know so many deacons that just put on the tonia to make everybody think they are so holy and they know so many hymns. It is a huge problem that needs to be addressed in church.

    I don't think that this is the problem...I think that being a deacon went from being one of the greatest blessings in the church to a daycare center for parents or just another spot for the men to stand. I really think the church needs to be stricter with deacon ordinations or enforce how this is a blessing and nothing else.
  • imikhailimikhail
    From the mouth of babes I prepared praise.

    We allow the kids to be psalters in order to have them grow in the Church and learn praising from youth.
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    If children are to be allowed to become psalters then there needs to be a strict and clear distinction between the psalters and the readers and subdeacons. There is too much confusion of ministry and a devaluing of the service when every male considers himself a deacon.
  • imikhailimikhail
    I agree totally with you Fr. Peter. I do not know why the Coptic Church revive the ranking of the deacons. Other Oriental Churches have the psalter, the reader and the subdeacon roles clear.

    I pray and wish from all of my hear that we return to our rich rituals.
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