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Why do we celebrate nativity on Jan 7 and not december 25?
Why do we celebrate nativity on Jan 7 and not december 25?
Comments
The Western world has dealt with this issue, and removed 13 days from one year, so that the Calendar matched the correct time.
So when we keep Christmas on 25th December in the UK it is using the revised calendar. When the Copts keep the feast later it is because they have not revised the calendar, it is still essentially on the 25th December (its a bit more complex) but using the old, unrevised Western calendar.
Father Peter
I will give the answer that I give my American friends: 'we want to get everything on Clearance and 75% off'.
[coptic]oujai qen P[C[/coptic]
I agree it would pose a huge conundrum relative to the days between 29 Koiak at the Resurrection Seasonal cycle. The other days (from the Resurrection Season to the Nativity) would go unchanged.
The issue is, for instance, that Pascha ends up being nowhere near the Spring Equinox where it is supposed to be, and could eventually end up at the Vernal Equinox.
The Fathers always seemed interested in proper and accurate calculations of Pascha, and turned to Alexandria for the correct date (usually). It seems reasonable to consider correcting an error in the civil calendar if it causes changes in the cycle of seasons the Fathers did not intend.
But I don't think it is a major issue immediately.
Father Peter
This is why the revised Calendar was introduced in the West.
The Feast of the Cross is supposed to be on September 14th. But if the old Calendar is not revised at some point it will become further and further away from this date.
The old calendar is about 11 minutes too short compared to real time, so over a period of 100 years it becomes 18 hours too short, and over about 130 years it is a day too short. When the Catholic Church revised the calendar it adjusted it by 10 days so that the date of the assumed date of the vernal equinox matched the real vernal equinox as at the time of Nicaea. When the British made the same change it was some centuries later so we needed to adjust by 11 days.
Over the following centuries the discrepancy has continued to grow and became 12 days in 1800, and 13 days in 1900. The discrepancy will continue to grow with the old calendar having less and less connection to the real seasons of the year. Eventually Coptic Christmas will take place in the middle of Summer.
It doesn't seem to me that this is what the Fathers intended, and so a revision of the calendar is not anti-Orthodox. But it is not the most pressing issue.
Father Peter
Merry Christmas (sorry for being 2 days late).
I have two questions, please:
1) When does the British Orthodox Church celebrate Easter, with the Coptic Church or the Western Churches (Catholic etc)?
2) How does each church calculate the date of Easter, and why do they sometimes vary, and at other times match?
Regards,
Mechaiel
Australia
The British Orthodox Church also follows this mixed calendar. So fixed feasts which are on a particular date are according to the revised calendar - 25th December is 25th December for instance, while Lent, Pascha and Pentecost are according to the old calendar and are kept in common with most other Orthodox.
The Finnish Orthodox Church keeps Pascha etc in accordance with the revised calendar.
mechaiel, the date of Pascha is supposed to be on the date of the first Sunday after the first full moon after the Vernal or Spring equinox. This notionally takes place on March 21st. But since the Julian calendar is slowly moving away from the actual calendar it means that the Julian and Western Calendars are talking about different real dates for March 21st. (There are other complications as well). But this means that sometimes the calculation of Pascha will be different for Catholics/Protestants and most Orthodox. In many thousands of years the notional Spring Equinox for the Julian calendar will be at the time of the Autumn Equinox.
This is of course not something we perhaps need to worry about now. But one of the questions we could ask is whether the calendar should be revised to be more accurate and reflect the actual dates as known at Nicaea or not. It does seem to me that the Fathers were concerned to be accurate in their calculation of Pascha. But they also wished to ensure that there was one Pascha celebrated in all places, which is why most Orthodox keep the unrevised calendar for Pascha since it is better to be inaccurate, if that is the case, than to celebrate multiple Paschas.
Father Peter
On the one hand you don't want to consider changing the calendar, but on the other hand it is clearly not what the Fathers intended to celebrate Christmas in the middle of Summer. (I appreciate that the Australians have to manage this Lol).
Father Peter
That was the exact point an old (Ethiopian I guess) member made before but their opinions were not taken seriously enough, and I think he may have deactivated his account. It is an issue that needs tackling hopefully in the near future ...