Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- All Categories 13.8K
- General Category 10.9K
- General Announcements 184
- Faith Issues 3.4K
- Coptic Orthodox Church 2.5K
- Personal Issues 1.4K
- Prayer Requests 426
- Random Issues 1.8K
- Introductions 295
- Non-Orthodox Inquiries 232
- Youth Corner 607
- Hymns 2.6K
- Hymns Discussion 2.6K
- Technicial Difficulties 370
- Technical Topics 370
Comments
Let me tell you a little bit about the coptic ideal of marriage and you'll see where we're coming from. In the Coptic Church marriage is a form of service to God which holds an ideal of love and purity. The church is not against dating unless it is not for the purpose of marriage.
If you say its okay to date without sexual contact you set one boundary and allow many others but this is an issue for us. The aim in dating is to spend time with ones fiance and to start to build a relationship of love. Love is a one way emotion where one gives to the other out of a desire to make them happy and not to satisfy a persons own needs or desires, just like Christ did for us on the cross without the remotest inclination to please self.
Lust is the opposite of giving, it is a desire where a person wants to take from another to satisfy themselves. The purpose of sex is something good and pure not the result of an act of desire, it is a response to God's call for us to work with Him in His act of creation in essence an act of giving love not selfish lust. This is actually using the other person for our own selfish purposes which is essentially taking advantage of them because your with them in part because of your own needs.
For us the relationship doesn't truly start and barrier don't come down until after marriage. One difference between the Orthodox and other denominations is that in the west marriage is a deal based on a set of vows two people make to cooperate and work together for the good of their future children. In Othrodoxy marriage a special unity is created by the Holy Spirit between two people to unify them as one flesh and in this God become a third person in the relationship from that point onward. It is at this point that the barriers drop when God is now activly working in the relationship and both partners can work together emotionally and physically and every action now, unlike before is done in communion with the Holy Spirit.
This adds a very special significance to any act that a person does and the less you preserve before hand the less there is that you have to give to your partner after the two of you have been made into one by God, this cheapens a relationship God had intended to be sanctified and blessed.
Also you may not realise it but kissing isn't as innocent as you think because it does have emotional and physical significance (you said this yourself as you mentioned that it is an answer to lust so there has to be some desire element to it otherwise it would have no impact on lust). The more a person kisses the more a lust builds, lusts can't quench lusts they only fuel them further like a fire. Think about it logically, if I kiss someone am I being bonded to them more or less on an emotional and physical level? The answer is not less, its more so the feeling grows, you can't be ignorant of these things. Kissing and moderate physical contact is not like water to desire it is trully a form of wood that adds to its ferocity and leads a person further into trouble.
The answer to lust is not to kiss but to look to God for a solution to the problem. Christ came to save our fallen nature and to raise us up from our state of spiritual poverty. This obviously includes saving us from sexual lusts so that we can have pure and innocent relationships with our partners based on pure and true love sanctified and blessed by God and this starts when He comes and blesses two people in marriage. There is huge difference between contact without God as a parter and with God as a partner, always keep this in mind.
God bless,
CS
Being Coptic, we are raised with certain morals and ideals (and you all know what they are!) that we must follow correctly and obediently if we one day wish to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. We all know that we must not deflect or stray from our sacred and age old religion, morals and customs. It is very easy to get caught up in the “everybody else is doing it” whirlpool, but within, each person knows EXACTLY what is right and what is wrong and being strong is essential for successful survival in this society.
Most importantly, I think that if you know that you are right, and you are being a good Coptic and obeying the laws that God, the Holy Spirit, the Bible, and the ten commandments set out for us, then you will be just fine, as long as you try not to make things easier or “loosen the grip” so-to-speak. We should listen to abouna, our parents our church and try to block out society and the “norms” that are almost always self destructive.
Clearly I am against the dating issue, but caring for yourself and watching what you do is the biggest part your responsibility. Of course we should watch out for our brethren and try to convince them, but being a good example and role model is one of the most convincing and effective ways of doing it. Letting others learn from example and being a shinning candle amidst darkness, will work to keep us an ongoing and special religion among the rest that exist in the world. Good Luck to all and do what is RIGHT!
P.S. Look at the success rate in our Coptic community in terms of marraige rates. It is pretty close to 100%. This is because of our old fashioned morals that quite honestly work. Now compare that to the American community that has a divorce rate of 52% and and adultery rate of alot more than that! Those of you that are big on science and math.... well, the statistics speak for themselves.This might be because of all the men and women getting used to "hooking up" with this person then breaking up with that person over and over again. They got used to instability, so getting married and staying with one person would be hard for them. Dont get urself used to that type of life style that ends in turmoil and a broken home.
but now i'd like to hear what Godisinmyheart has to say... i mean that in a nice way, but when typing u cant really express tone ;D
you keep on bringing up the reason that u'd like to know ur husband before u engage him... i also have a ? for u:
if u're dating several guys, or even more than 1 guy in ur teen years... wut makes u think u can remain with the one guy u end up getting married too? i'm not even talking about sexual content, etc... just dating...?
i'd also like to apologize for talking sooo much on this forum...SORRY :D :)
but im just lost on one thing...
what ever made u think that dating was right to start out with?
feel free to answer though
i just got my hands on a great book! and we all know it, I kissed dating goodbye, by joshua harris
it has been recommended to me by everyone i know, and it seems great
some of the ?'s it asks:
What is ur motivation in relationships, pleasing urslef or serving others?
Do u give urself away physically or emotionally in ways you weill regret when married?
does ur currin relationship hinder you from serving God as a single person?
mind u... from wut i understand, he wrote this book when he was 19!!!!
"Tired of the game? Kiss dating goodbye. Dating, Isn't there a better way? I kissed Dating Goodbye suggests there is. Reorder ur romantic life int he light of God's Word and find more fulfillment than a date could ever give - a life of sincere love, true purity, and purposeful singleness."
Is it really that good?
God bless,
CS
and honestly... i dont want to put it down!
its not one of those long drawn out spiritual books... its actually qutie good
it may be found at barnes and nobles, if not, check ur church library!
hopefully ill read most of the rest by the end of the week
let u know
later :P
-mary
but this book is a good reason not to date.... and u also ahve to remember where ur heart leads u too ppl
[move]To date or not to...?[/move]
This above all, to thine own self be true,
-Chris
i just saw the polls on the other forum
and i must say
im quite disappointed! >:(
we've had 6 pages of this discussion and we ahve practically listed 100 reasons y u shouldnt date (okay, i know im exaggerating, but the reasons that everyone has given are worth more than 100!)
so if anyone still thinks that dating is right
plz respectively state ur opinion, and we'll respect it
but also state y u think its still right and y ur convinced its right?
plz, dont think that we're gonna attack you for doing this... but u need to understand how wrong this is and y
any comments or ?'s... please post
tahts the point of this forum
and i must say, if u dont want to post it... then u know ur wrong...
till later, :)
i voted OK, if planning to be engaged
only because i believe that u gottta meet a few times with ur potential fiance before u actualy vow to each other upon the alter
but besides that, dating is definatly [glow=green,2,300]NOT OKAY[/glow]
i dont think u can just dive right into an engagement w/o talking ot ur potential fiance one on one first
of course, after the traditional meetings and conferences with abouna have taken place...
[glow=orange,2,300]i got itt to be [/glow] [glow=green,2,300]green![/glow]
just wanted to c if it worekd iwht other colors too
[glow=pink,2,300]i tend to be [/glow] [glow=yellow,2,300]randommmm[/glow]
[glow=purple,2,300]YIKES![/glow]
[quote author=egyprincess link=board=1;threadid=22;start=30#msg1073 date=1083347387]
hi! i agree with all that everybody said. i myself have never dated and tried to influnce and convince my friends that it is wrong. However, i always dont get through. the problem is that teenagers think that they are ready for a serious relationship and have found the one. I know people who have gotten engaged, girl hs and guy in college. and it still doesnt work out. how do we get it through to these people htat no matter what at this age it is wrong to date for the fact that maturity is still occuring and most importantly that God does not approve of it? any comments would be greatly appreciated.
most of us agreed that dating is wrong unless u r ready to be engaged. thats firm. but how do we convince others of this point. i know many many teenagers around me that r going down that path. Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated. please pray for me.
[glow=red,2,300]Help!!![/glow]
i understand where egyprincess is coming from
several grls that are in hs think that they're ready for a commitment and go and commit themselves to some college guy or older
not realizing that this older guy is as sick in the head as she is!
any advice?
God will choose for us
"iza kan allahu maana fa man aalayna"