Money to Illegal Immigrants

edited June 2009 in Personal Issues
Hi,

I have a question about giving money to the Church:

There are two parts to this question:

Question 1:

We have a coptic Church in the diaspora where the priest has openly said that money from the Church will go to help bring illegal immigrants to the country. There are already 100's of illegal immigrants in this Church, and the priest's logic is that he feels its unfair that they are not illegal also when others are illegal.

I personally feel that this is not something we should be encouraging - and its REALLY putting me off giving money to that Church.

Even though these immigrants may be Coptic, they end up getting papers to stay in the Country by paying a woman money to marry her, they get divorced etc.. and marry someone else Coptic.

I just wish to add one thing also:

Egyptians, when they come to the west, especially illegally, do not really contribute to the society they are in, and nor do they have any respect for it (from what I've seen). They do not integrate, nor respect the culture of their host country. I'm not sure if this is even good for them anyway.

Question 2:

Is it OK to give your 10's to an organisation OUTSIDE the Coptic Church?

Comments

  • Yeah, I understand exactly what you're saying. Personally, I wouldnt contribute towards that Church. Sadly, Copts seem willing to turn a blind eye when it is fellow Copts staying illegally because they feel in can be justified by a variety of reasons (perhaps most prominent, that there is persecution in Egypt, hence the Copts should migrate to the West).

    I dont really think staying here, and doing "white marriage" is the right way to do things. Moreover, if that's what they'll do to get residency, i'd hate to think of what they'd do for other things. Basically, it means they've started their new lives based on a lie. I know quite a few Copts here like that, and I just dont like them. That said, I also know Copts that came to Australia 10 years ago and they are very very successful today, and so what they did in their early days is only a faint memory. All-in-all though, I dont believe in condoning the Copts that are in the West illegally. I'd much rather send money to Egypt, or to groups like CopticOrphans. At least that way it helps Copts and Egyptians who need it more.

    As for giving money to organisations outside the church, i'd say that was definitely alright, but personally i'd much rather give money to Coptic/Egyptian/Arab organisations. I mean, it doesnt have to be Coptic, but i'd rather give money to charities that are doing stuff in Egypt or Palestine. God knows they need it..

    Ma salaama..
    Matt :D
  • Hi Matt,

    I was actually thinking about the Roman Catholic Church. Is it OK to give your 10ths to the RC.

    As for illegal immigrants... im really sadened by the fact that Coptic Priests think they are doing people favours by not respecting immigration law and aiding immigrants to come to countries like France and western Europe.

    If they had skills the country required and applied for residency, they'd integrate much much better in the country. But as they are, they will not respect the country.. and what they achieve may only be financial - its never beyond. I mean, I know a guy who came over illegally, he doesnt speak a WORD of French.. he is quite rich now, but he hasnt developed as a person...

    Money is not everything.
  • QT, i think you should give it to the coptic orth. church, because first of all, you have to give your 10ths to God (not to any organisations outside the church) and secondly u would support a different teaching and different goals (if you give it to the cath. church).
    So please, don`t turn away your heart from our beautiful church.
    If you don`t want to give the money to your church (in town), then collect it. And if you are going to Egypt (on vacation), you can give it to your preferred one there.
    God bless you.
  • [quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=8060.msg103661#msg103661 date=1243851264]

    Is it OK to give your 10's to an organisation OUTSIDE the Coptic Church?



    As long as you mean it in a way of serving God, it doesn't matter who or where you give the money to. As a good friend always reminds me "God wants the heart".

    I'm not saying this in disagreement with Mariaat, of course the best place to give your tithes to is your church.. but we dont have to limit ourselves to only that. If you feel a needier organization needs the money then why not help them out as well? I don't think it's right that we focus so much where the money is going, because right when we take it out of our pockets it is as if we are giving the money to God Himself instead of a church or organization. He deals with it from there. So instead of the question where is the money going to ask where is my heart when I offer this money?

    Peace.
  • I'd like to start off by saying that most of us sitting here on Tasbeha live comfortable (or more comfortable than those in Egypti) lives in these western lands of migration, so i really don't think it's our place to judge these people and  say that by wanting a better life they are wrong.  We already have that better life, and some of us, have been blessed with the ability to adjust better.  Staying 100% Egyptian in America is a curse ! YOu might think they don't want to even try, but it's hard.  You haven't been there and you haven't done that.  We already have that better life, and of course it's easy to say: stop coming to america ! do it the legal way! stay in egypt ! and yattta yatta. 
    and i'm not condoning illegal immigration, but i don't think we should be so quick to judge and catogorize.  Not all Egyptians come here in hopes of only money and not all of them come here and sit around and do nothing. In fact, you might find it interesting to know that Egyptians are the most educated group of immigrants ( ;
    idk what you've seen but from what i've seen...i can't look at an illegal immigrant and not want to cry for them.  Most of the ones i've seen are miserable to such an UNBELIEVABLE extent, no joke, and they wish to return.  They didn't realize what it would be like, and even after learning english and trying all they can...they still haen't been able to advance in any way and if they could have a do over they would change what they did.


    anyhoooooo....i think it's fine to donate to organizations outside the church.  Giving to God is not only done through the church.  when you give a poor man food, you've just given to God, when you give a needy child a toy for Christmas, you've just given to God, when you donate clothes, you've just given to God..and the list continues.  I think it's in your best judgement to assess who needs it most, and i'm not saying judge who needs it most, just see where you think it will do the most good.  IF you feel that it will d o the most good in the hands of the RC, then i think it's fine if you give it there.
  • [quote author=copticcross3 link=topic=8060.msg103736#msg103736 date=1243995253]
    anyhoooooo....i think it's fine to donate to organizations outside the church.  Giving to God is not only done through the church.  when you give a poor man food, you've just given to God, when you give a needy child a toy for Christmas, you've just given to God, when you donate clothes, you've just given to God..and the list continues.  I think it's in your best judgement to assess who needs it most, and i'm not saying judge who needs it most, just see where you think it will do the most good.  IF you feel that it will d o the most good in the hands of the RC, then i think it's fine if you give it there.


    Couldn't have said it better  :)
  • [quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=8060.msg103661#msg103661 date=1243851264]
    Hi,

    I have a question about giving money to the Church:

    There are two parts to this question:

    Question 1:

    We have a coptic Church in the diaspora where the priest has openly said that money from the Church will go to help bring illegal immigrants to the country. There are already 100's of illegal immigrants in this Church, and the priest's logic is that he feels its unfair that they are not illegal also when others are illegal.

    I personally feel that this is not something we should be encouraging - and its REALLY putting me off giving money to that Church.

    Even though these immigrants may be Coptic, they end up getting papers to stay in the Country by paying a woman money to marry her, they get divorced etc.. and marry someone else Coptic.

    I just wish to add one thing also:

    Egyptians, when they come to the west, especially illegally, do not really contribute to the society they are in, and nor do they have any respect for it (from what I've seen). They do not integrate, nor respect the culture of their host country. I'm not sure if this is even good for them anyway.

    Question 2:

    Is it OK to give your 10's to an organisation OUTSIDE the Coptic Church?




    ya ive seen a a bunch of those ppl here and i live in canada. i dont think the money should be going to these ppl, it not fair that other ppl dont have food on the table and these ppl are mistreating the money and getting divorces when we just got them married. they make me mad, i wish someone can bring this to the church's attention so we can stop this nonsense. lets sign a petition  ;D i'll be first
    1. mary
    then qt you can bring this petition to the church's attention (i volenteer u) ur welcome.
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