Why didn't Jesus save the angels like He saved humans?

Anglican

Dear Mike,

You are no more a 'vessel of Satan' than anyone else; we are all sinners - but we all try, through Him and His Church to travel on the road of Theosis.

How do we know we are made in God's image? Because the Bible tells us so:

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.

and also

1 Corinthians 1:17 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God;

As St. Athanasius wrote in his On the Incarnation 54:

For He was made man that we might be made God

I am not sure it is helpful for you to think about God giving us any particular period of time. Read St. Matthew 20:8-16, which has a lesson here for us all; if we heed God's call it is never too late. Repentance is a state of heart and mind, not the work of a moment, or the work of many years - but of both these things. We know we are sinners, yet He died on the Cross that we might have life eternal; He did that because He loves us - yes, you and me, and all of us sinners. As He says in Mark 2:17:

When Jesus heard it, He said to them, Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.

Remember also what St. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 7:9-10:

7:9 Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing.
7:10 For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.

It seems, dear Mike, that you are being persecuted with bad thoughts; talk to your priest, confess, and take comfort in the fact that you are a child of God, and the knowledge that He died for you. You do not have to be perfect, indeed in this life you cannot be so. He understands all things - including your pain - take it to Him and find rest and comfort there. I shall pray for the Most Holy and Ever-Virgin Theotokos to intercede for you.

If these thoughts persist, you must see your priest.

In Christ,

John

danny_iki

Dear Mike

God is omnipotent (almighty) and omniscient (knows everything that has happened, is happening and will happen). He knows whether or not you will repent and when you will do so. St. John speaking about the Holy Spirit says in his Gospel:

And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. John 16:8-11

Our Lord God and Saviour, Jesus Christ to whom be the glory, knows if you have or will ever have the intention to repent. God knows everything, in our hearts, minds, emotions; everything that happens he is aware of it. As God said to Samuel:

...Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have refused him. For the Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart. 1 Samuel 16:7

God knows the depths of every heart, he could easily end the life of a sinner who has no intention to repent in his life, but out of his mercy and justice he allows him to live so that when he is being judged in heaven, he cannot say: But you never gave me a chance?! For although he will not repent God still gives him a chance. Remeber what happened in the beginning, when God allowed humans to live for a much longer period than they do today? The Holy Bible says:

Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them. Genesis 6:5-7

God saw that the longer man lived the more sin he comitted, there was no man on the face of the earth who was righteous except for Noah. Repentance can occur in the last moment of your life; so long as it is from the heart, So back to the main topic, Satan has been around for a very, very long time. Satanael was created along with the rest of the angels on the 1st day of creation when God said:

"Let there be light; and there was light." Genesis 1:3

If Satan had ever wanted to repent, he had ample opportuninty to do so.

It seems as if Satan is filling your mind with thoughts and as Anglian rightly said, you should go and see your confession father about these problems. He is the only one who can give you guidance.

Your brother in need of prayer
Danial

mikeforjesus

same as above

minatasgeel

[quote author=mikeforjesus link=topic=5274.msg72519#msg72519 date=1181834712]
you said
"God knows the depths of every heart, he could easily end the life of a sinner who has no intention to repent in his life, but out of his mercy and justice he allows him to live so that when he is being judged in heaven, he cannot say: But you never gave me a chance?!  For although he will not repent God still gives him a chance. "

that might be true in some cases.. but sometimes God does end the life of a sinner.. thats why we have to be afraid lest we die in sin

So can that person say you never gave me a chance? but I think if 100 years is enough for a person maybe God knows that 17 years is enough for some other person.. and in the judgment that person will still know that he/she had the chance and God was equal in his treatment of him/her and others.. that person might know even if he/she was given more time on earth it would have been impossible for that person to repent   
(or is this thought from satan? how am I to believe it.. it seems right and it satisfies me for now atleast)

first, God knows eveything and he knows if that person had enough chance to repent or not.
when u talk about chances to repent or to know God....you're not talking about years of living, but yrs, days, hours or even minutes knowing GOd. am say that i person can live in church all of his life, know our faith inside out, and he sinned and still a sinner...and he wont repent. now that person is not like one who lived in a place where there is no way on earth he can get to know God through what's around him. look at the diffrence between these to people even thoo they might be the same age.

Anglican

Dear Mike,

Your worries are great - but as St. Isaac the Syrian wrote 'If God seems not to answer your prayer, do not worry, you are not wiser than God.'

God offers you redemption and salvation; he does not require you to pass exams or to know everything - just to believe in the Incarnate Lord, repent of your sins and follow Him in the Church. Do that and you will be safe in His arms. Remember, He died that you might have life eternal - and that is all we know - and all we need to know.

In Christ,

Anglian

jydeacon

Minagir and Anglian are absolutly correct in what they have said. i also have a saying from St. John Chrisystom(probably mispelled that):"Let your mind wander, but keep your heart with God". it is ok to wonder about these things so long as you know for sure that your faith will not waiver. if you have doubt in your mind about God then these thougts are harmful. again, don't worry so much as to the salvation of others but on your own salvation first. Remember, "remove the plank from your own eye before you try to remove the one from your brothers eye"

mikeforjesus

"he does not require you to pass exams or to know everything"
what do you mean?

Anglican

Dear Mike,

What I mean is that when you write something like

but can I be sure He will give me trust in Him in time.. and how long must I wait? and how do I know whether or not He will hold it against me for not having the answers for questions that sharply attack my faith?  I know I don't need answers for insignificant things..

you really should not worry about such things, but should, rather, follow the advice from St. John Chrysostom helpfully provided by JYdeacon.

Christ came to save sinners; that you know yourself to be one is the first and greatest step on the road to salvation, which comes through Him and His Church. Do talk to your priest if these thoughts torment you; Satan is always trying to lure us from the path.

My prayers are with you.

In Christ,

John

mikeforjesus

Mike, satan cannot be saved because he fell into the sin of pride of his own accord. He had no one trying to convince him that through his pride he will succeed and become greater than God, HE TEMPTED HIMSELF. Which is why he has no hope of salvation.

As for what you said earlier about us knowing something is bad and we still do it, this is because satan has made us accustomed to sin. A young child does not know anything about sin and if he is not taught, he will not know how to do commit sin all the days of his life.

Please pray for me the weak and sinful


[Moderated: for inappropriate language]

Ioannes

Angels cannot be saved because they sin of their own accord. There is nothing tempting them to sin. So it is a conscience descision to go against God. Therefore God created Adam and Eve to redeem the position of the fallen angels.

minatasgeel

GUYS.....this is a very old thread...June 15, 2007.....WHY BRING IT BACK

peterfarrington

Yes, I do rather agree.

If a thread is more than a few months old then lets not bring it back from the dead, but start a new one if there is something new to be said.

Father Peter