Mary's immaculate conception

matt88

Hi,
Ok im a little confused about something. Someone posted this a document comparing the catholic and coptic church:

"The Coptic Orthodox Church does not believe in the Immaculate Conception of St. Mary, because:
A) St. Mary said " My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoiced in God my Savior" (St. Luke 1:46&47).
B) No one without sin except God alone (Galatians 3:22, 1st. Kings 8:46, Ecclesiastes 7:20)
C) Only Christ our Lord and God is without sin (2nd Cor 5:21, Heb 4:15, Heb 7:26)
D) This is against the Bible teachings (1st. John 3:5). "

Im very very surprised, and to be honest offended! I mean how can anyone say mary is not a virgin? I eagerly awaited any replies. Rabana Maak

Luke90

Matt88, you have to understand that the Catholic docterine of Immaculate Conception does not say that St. Mary was a virgin, what it says is that she was born without sin, hence the title "immaculate conception."

Both Orthodox and Catholics believe that St. Mary is the Mother of God (theotokos) and the "Ever-Virgin Mary." However, on December 8, 1854, the catholic pope, Pope Pius IX instituted the "dogma of the immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary" which states (taken from http://www.geocities.com/mgocsmbvli/orth_cath.htm) that"

From the first instant of her conception, the Blessed Virgin Mary was, by a most singular grace and privilege of Almighty God, and in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Redeemer of the human race, preserved from all stain of Original Sin. It is a doctrine revealed by God, and therefore to be firmly and steadfastly believed by all the faithful (from the Bull Ineffabilis Deus).

And from what you posted Matt, you can see why we don't accept it. If St. Mary was born without sin, why would she need a savior as she says in Luke 1:46 & 47? I'm sure that others can explain it much better than I can, but just an observation on my part, how can the catholics, who consider themselves apostolic, institute a new dogma with no Biblical support as late as the year 1854? It makes no sense whatsoever which leads me to a question that's been bugging me. Why did the catholics institute the dogma in the first place? +

Unknown

Yea, the immaculate conception basically refers to St. Mary being without sin which we don't accept with gooood reason. :)

Safaa

matt88,
You can find an answer to your question from a Coptic Drthodox point of view in this link by the Southern Diocese of the United States
http://www.suscopts.org/q&a/index.php?catid=203

matt88

Thanks to all who contributed to that!! Things make a lot more sense now!! I originally thought that what was being said was that jesus was not born of a virgin birth, which surprised me quite so. However i can see now where i misunderstood what was said. Again thank you all very much :)