Sin of slandering included among other great sins

edited October 2017 in Faith Issues
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NKJV)
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God

Other translations say for revilers is slandering and it seems accurate translation so we must be gentle to all sinners not just priests. Ofcourse you can not slander priests. It is not just about false accusation but judging and condemning is itself a false accusation. Normally those who judge make false accusations anyway

Promised Faithfulness to the Lord
A Psalm of David.
1 I will sing of mercy and justice;
To You, O Lord, I will sing praises.
2 I will behave wisely in a perfect way.
Oh, when will You come to me?
I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.
3 I will set nothing wicked before my eyes;
I hate the work of those who fall away;
It shall not cling to me.
4 A perverse heart shall depart from me;
I will not know wickedness.
5 Whoever secretly slanders his neighbor,
Him I will destroy;
The one who has a haughty look and a proud heart,
Him I will not endure.
6 My eyes shall be on the faithful of the land,
That they may dwell with me;
He who walks in a perfect way,
He shall serve me.
7 He who works deceit shall not dwell within my house;
He who tells lies shall not continue in my presence.
8 Early I will destroy all the wicked of the land,
That I may cut off all the evildoers from the city of the Lord.

We have to hate the one who persists in his sin for love of God but if he is alive and not condemned by God it is written judge nothing before the time
Even if something is wrong for my friend it is as Job said even if my friend forsakes the fear of the almighty because we don't know if he will repent and doing it because he is sick (I don't mean that as insult) I must not insult or condemn him but I can rebuke and warn.
You can seperate yourself out of love if you are weak if you think you partake in sin but you must show love to all and let them feel you will pray for them and care for them and not be altogether unfriendly. David was kind to his enemies like the one who cursed him and he was under the Old Testament. He admitted he was a sinner but he was condemned at the end (not david) because he persisted in his sin and was prevented from doing mischief he planned on doing. If we try to get people against the evil doer you are resisting the evil doer which jesus said not to do
Also you can not judge the evil doer anymore by putting unnecesarily hard restrictions on them returning to church only what is necessarily. We must try to loose everyone sin not bound it just because we want to make no effort. Some times you must bound for their good and it will be bound forever if they don't repent

All slanderers must not delay repentance but please pity the sinner without justifying him lest your chances are over and you partake in sin too. And it must be from the heart. Give your heart to God not falsely to man

Psalm 15:3-4
3 He who does not backbite with his tongue,
Nor does evil to his neighbor,
Nor does he take up a reproach against his friend;
4 In whose eyes a vile person is despised,
But he honors those who fear the Lord;

This is from the book words 100 words of spiritual benefit volume 1

Sometimes, a holy anger happens for God's sake, but it does not have nervousness and loss of temper, it is a holy zeal.
James, the apostle, said about human anger "...for the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God." (James 1:20)
Our saintly fathers, have many sayings on rebuking anger.
St. Aughoris said, "The prayer of the angry is a defiled and rejected incense and the offering of the angry is unaccepted." He also said: "Anger is an action of the insane... It makes humans like beasts... the eyes of the angry are evil, full of blood, while the face of the gentle is radiant and his eyes look with dignity."
St. Agathon used to say, "Even if the angry raised the dead, it is not accepted by God and nobody will come forward to him."
An elderly man said, "The one whose heart is not saddened when his brother disputes with him is like the angels. If he disputes with him, too, he later and reconciles immediately. This is the action of strugglers. On the other hand, he who upsets his brothers, gets angry with them and hatred settles in his heart, is a follower of the devil, disobedient to God and
God will not forgive his sins as far as he does not forgive the sins of his brothers... "
St. Ephram, the Syrian said, "The wrathful kills himself. He is a stranger to blame and has poor health because his body withers all the time. His spirit is sad and is hated by all."
St. Ephram also said, "he who hides envy in his heart is like the one who keeps a serpent in his lap. Smoke drives the bees away and hatred drives knowledge away from the heart."
St. Isaiah said, "Anger is desiring to achieve what you want by force, without exercising humility."
St. Augustine said, "What is anger? It is the desire for revenge... If God, despite our offences, does not wish to wreak vengeance on us... do we ask for revenge for ourselves and sin against God everyday?!"
St. Gregory, the Bishop of Nyssa said, "Anger makes the black bitterness spread all over the body."
St. John of Assiut said, "the weapon of anger hurts its possessor... anger in the heart is like a woodworm in timber."
If we refer to the Holy Bible, we will find that it says, "Do not hasten in your spirit to be angry. For anger rests in the bosom of fools." (Ecce. 7:9). It also says, "Make no friendship with an angry man. And with a furious man do not go." (Prov 22:24).


  • edited October 2017
    We shouldn't judge priests for they if they use their gifts can be wiser than us as it is written let not many become teachers we shall receive a stricter judgement for we all stumble in many things. They also have much experience

    We don't need to we can say our judgement without slandering
  • edited October 2017
    I believe our leaders have to show gentleness even to enemies St Peter said not to be lords over those entrusted to you don't make us fear too much but if we don't submit God will not give us grace but they did their part to show us much love and God will judge the opposition which does not repent it they are good. We must always not fight them but if they are good we also must reconcile with them

    The below passage shows it is not our job to judge but to love and God will judge those who continue in rebellion when shown love and will preserve the church by judging those who fight it if they do not repent. Therefore we don't need to worry about no corruption. Who is the one who has a form of godliness but deny its power ? Those who teach you need to repent but have not repented therefore blaspheming repentance and who are the people you turn away from ? If it is the slanderers it seems to mean turn away from allowing them to corrupt you not turn from them. We are commanded to let our gentleness be made known to all men
    We turn away from acting like them

    2 Timothy 3:5-9
    5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the
    faith; 9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.

    The full passage is below which shows Jannes and Jambres were probably slanderers. Headstrong is meaning to not want to be serious and sober and humble but to be without fear of God if you offend others not wanting the blessings of our fathers as paul said obey our masters even the harsh about worldly matters so also worldly we are required only to submit to those who are good not being lords but by obey I meant not to fight them. As verse 12 shows all who live godly will suffer persecution that is because they are always loving to all

    2 Timothy 3:1-12 (NKJV)
    Perilous Times and Perilous Men
    1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the
    faith; 9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.
    The Man of God and the Word of God
    10 But you have carefully followed my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, perseverance, 11 persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra—what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution

    Matthew 20:15-28 (NKJV)
    25 But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. 26 Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. 27 And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave— 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

    1 Peter 5:3-5 (NKJV)
    3 nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock; 4 and when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away.
    Submit to God, Resist the Devil
    5 Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for
    “God resists the proud,
    But gives grace to the humble.”
  • edited October 2017
    Not justifying the slanderer they must still repent but these are the words of Jesus

    Matthew 5:10-12
    10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
    For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    11 “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

  • edited October 2017
    I forgot to include this quote
    I include it because I was worried I could be the person described if defiling women meant defiling their faith by letting them pity me for my sins so they don’t feel they need to be pure. Also people who are distant from the church might think those have greater knowledge who think they have knowledge but have only a form of godliness but deny the power thereof

    Irenaeus: Some of the disciples of Marcus wandered about among the faithful, deceived many silly women and defiled them. They boasted of being so perfect that no one was able to come up to the greatness of their knowledge. No one, not even Peter or Paul, or any other of the apostles. They imagined that they knew more than all others and alone imbibed the greatness of the knowledge and the unspeakable Power. They thought of themselves as on a height above all Power, and so they felt free to do all things without fear of anyone in regard to anything. Against the Heresies 1.13.6.
  • edited October 2017
    Matthew 5:43-48 (NKJV)
    43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

    You got to be perfect. As long as the sun is shining on them as proof that God hasn’t given up on them you can’t either
    God doesn’t punish people to make them repent. He only chastens on earth those He has not punished yet even though it feel cruel. It may feel cruel that God requires you to forgive those you are upset with and obey them and He requires them also to behave kind but you must still obey and leave judgement to God .Therefore they must be kind to the unjust just as God is because to be a Christian you must be like your Father.
    Lamentations says God does not afflict willingly the children of men.
    Therefore when they are given to condemnation it is not willingly but because they insisted on their sin and refused to receive correction
    Therefore when people call people bad things because they are behaving bad I think they need to re-examine if they know what Christ taught and if they love Him

    It is easy for me to criticise others but I am so far from being Christ like myself. I need to love my enemies with deeds and others

  • edited October 2017
    Someone made a nasty comment on facebook to another and I responded but it appears it was deleted. I saved both the comment and my response in my email for further testimony of what I think is true.I won't share with anyone either the commenter or another to see what good can come. But just to know my words are there forever. And I will see the response to it if need be in the future. 
    The response may appear again if it is not completely deleted if so I don't know whether I should delete or leave it. And I was harsh to no one.

  • edited October 2017
    Proverbs 17:4-28 (NKJV)
    4 An evildoer gives heed to false lips;
    A liar listens eagerly to a spiteful tongue.
    5 He who mocks the poor reproaches his Maker;
    He who is glad at calamity will not go unpunished.
    6 Children's children are the crown of old men,
    And the glory of children is their father.
    7 Excellent speech is not becoming to a fool,
    Much less lying lips to a prince.
    8 A present is a precious stone in the eyes of its possessor;
    Wherever he turns, he prospers.
    9 He who covers a transgression seeks love,
    But he who repeats a matter separates friends.
    10 Rebuke is more effective for a wise man
    Than a hundred blows on a fool.
    11 An evil man seeks only rebellion;
    Therefore a cruel messenger will be sent against him.
    12 Let a man meet a bear robbed of her cubs,
    Rather than a fool in his folly.
    13 Whoever rewards evil for good,
    Evil will not depart from his house.
    14 The beginning of strife is like releasing water;
    Therefore stop contention before a quarrel starts.
    15 He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just,
    Both of them alike are an abomination to the Lord.
    16 Why is there in the hand of a fool the purchase price of wisdom,
    Since he has no heart for it?
    17 A friend loves at all times,
    And a brother is born for adversity.
    18 A man devoid of understanding shakes hands in a pledge,
    And becomes surety for his friend.
    19 He who loves transgression loves strife,
    And he who exalts his gate seeks destruction.
    20 He who has a deceitful heart finds no good,
    And he who has a perverse tongue falls into evil.
    21 He who begets a scoffer does so to his sorrow,
    And the father of a fool has no joy.
    22 A merry heart does good, like medicine,
    But a broken spirit dries the bones.
    23 A wicked man accepts a bribe behind the back
    To pervert the ways of justice.
    24 Wisdom is in the sight of him who has understanding,
    But the eyes of a fool are on the ends of the earth.
    25 A foolish son is a grief to his father,
    And bitterness to her who bore him.
    26 Also, to punish the righteous is not good,
    Nor to strike princes for their uprightness.
    27 He who has knowledge spares his words,
    And a man of understanding is of a calm spirit.
    28 Even a fool is counted wise when he holds his peace;
    When he shuts his lips, he is considered perceptive.

    There is something called considering there is a plank in your eye before considering what may comparatively be a speck in your brother eye. We should always take the lower seat. He who exalts himself will be humbled. This does not mean falsely accusing yourself but considering you may have faults you don’t see

    We ought to correct our brothers and sisters in love. Love your neighbor as your brother. How many consider the offender their brother or sister unless they do so mockingly let me be your brother or sister which I only care for you as such if you obey me now. If you greet only your brethren what do you do more than others ? You can also benefit from a scoffer as David did without justifying his scoffing and as jesus called you blessed for turning the other cheek (which is not accepting another strike but internalising that it is true you are not perfect) and not resisting the sinner (I am not saying not to defend yourself for others sake)

    I am going to separate myself from all slanderers in love lest as the bishop or priest in the video above says I accept their tarnishing of their image like the son who seeks rebellion in this proverb probably because it exalts himself and I partake in sin by not stopping the encouraging of the sin but I won’t stoop to the level of hating others and not care as he who laughed at calamity whether a regular person or a priest will not go unpunished and if I think a priest is sinning though I may be wrong I must not repay their good with evil because it is not my issue and they are our teachers if we take their job we have stricter judgement as st James says. We pray for them to be right and become right they have to judge many matters to resolve them and their job is more difficult but if they are wrong it is between them and God. If you bite and devour one another beware lest you be consumed by one another. The health of the church does not depend on us convincing others to believe what we say but we try to correct one on one and if not we tell it to church only what we suffered not other stories and trying to justify ourselves because the purpose to do is because we worry some will not trust the church though we don’t justify them not to go if they can still go but for fear of being mistreated even if they did not or did not intend to mistreat and it not being able to be resolved if they are in such a situation. They have to resolve why they are offended with the church not try to say we have a right to be offended. Your goal is not to change the church but let all those truly of the church aware of your problem not the many appeared problems leave judgement to yourself and accept the wound and try to go to church yourself.
    I have to separate myself for how I think it harms me but I do so in love and because I truly think that is how I be on their side by not encouraging them in sin unless the church tells me to be there for them without sinning since otherwise I think I am sinning because of how I appear or may be affected. I care for their mental health but if I am supporting sin it is not good for them even their soul health and I may be influenced to sin. It is wrong for them to be offended because I seek their well being.

    We slander others when Satan tells us they want to tell us God hates us.
    No weapon formed against us will prosper

    You should only rebuke once and not bring more stories you can confess you are still wounded but you are yourself not to resist the one who seems to acting like a evil doer. No offence but the offended should keep their opinion to themself in fear of making others actually bad as the proverbs says even if you are not bad or not as bad . The priests are less likely to listen to you if others have slandered you because they see you as a scoffer according to psalm 1 though you are not if they knew you and they are humble they would listen even if it be from people with less position as moses listened to his father in law though he didn’t need to as God would guide him but God wanted to bless moses or make him closer to his father in law. Psalm 1 says we should not stand in the path of sinners that is give sinners an audience and when you stand in the path you can progress to a scoffer. We can not know who is righteous or wicked or sinning therefore I must not give heed to slandering lips by any as then I may justify the wicked and condemn the just

    It is right to cover a transgression

    You have a right to be offended but not seek vengeance for God will judge rightly
    A man of knowledge will spare words for though mostly right some may be wrong and even if right it may lead to division by people taking your side because you appeared right

    The proverbs says the beginning of strife is like releasing water therefore stop contention before it gets worse

    I know my post won’t be perfect because excellent speech is not becoming a fool

    A fool is counted wise by the wise when he shuts his lips so I should shut my lips incase I am not wise but I intend to do that now or did I have to just do it without telling you but I thought that not wise to those I will offend. So shutting my lips may lead to worse if that means I will continue to stand in the path of sin and may be a scoffer.
    And that fool is only counted wise by the wise but some people are not wise but I must not avenge myself

    What do I know I am a sinner and a excessive meat eating greedy or aggressive person
  • edited October 2017
    I have realised my presence is here is not needed as others are way wiser than me if they choose to serve. Out of my weakness I do not trust they do which is why I stay.
    I still hope they will therefore if I am banned it shall not be a problem and which is why I have not feared ban from my excessive talk or posting. But I still try not to be banned but I don’t know how I can not be if I am honest too much about my feelings as it is pride because I act like others don’t know and I am a teacher as I want to be which is not wrong but it is wrong on this forum because new wine must not be put in Old wine skins.
    I shall find another avenue
  • edited November 2017
    I decided unfriending is not good for me as I worry about her mental health. It is up to each person what he thinks is right and/or if he has a good excuse or reason not to
    We have to look after each other

    I do not idolise pope shenouda or any person but I find him trustworthy in many matters. I couldn't be a better leader than him nor would Pope Tawadros have to be better but help do God will on earth for God knows what the world needs if church is being what it needs to be now or not. Total reform can not happen by one pope and we did not help pope shenouda do reform but he may have already done all for he was trying to bring unity in truth but we don't know the extent

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