Responsibility of the church for making unity.

edited May 2017 in Faith Issues
Jesus commanded us to baptise all nations in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. Yet St Peter baptised in the name of the Lord Jesus assuming it is in belief of trinity. Because they believed in the trinity their baptism is in the name of the trinity for they accepted a Jesus as part of trinity 
If they believed in Jesus only as God the Father their baptism would not count 
The nations who we must teach are also the Christians who have deviated because of the mistakes of their fathers. We are responsible to heal their division or we could. Therefore any false things they follow like some don't need the gospel we have to show them they are wrong because maybe only their fathers were stubborn and we could help them. We do not judge their fathers if they did not corrupt the faith intentionally. Maybe someone can be saved not knowing everything if it is not intentional but less reward and less blessing to the world but he has to believe in Jesus and be righteous. The fault of disunity is in those who do not strive to see their error supposing it is catholics but orthodox could help that. We could be responsible for not helping them see their error by our righteous life but God alone knows if we have done our job and they are being stubborn. Atleast we must guard the true faith for all the churches to one day unite and we work harder to make unity if we are responsible but only God knows if one is being stubborn.

But they are still being saved in their church and they are not less of a saint while being in their church as long as each individually accepts and strives for the truth and teaches because it may not be the time for unity which even though it always is it is not until those responsible are convinced to make it happen and if one converts one may worry about offending a family member who is not mature enough to see the good of your decision if it is ever good

If we stop condemning each other for being in other churches there is no scandal if one converts to the other but I think you should decide wisely if you will convert because it is different for each case people do not have to convert to the other but rather reform their own churches. Maybe they should wait till the churches unite. If you are married to a person from another church I hope you can each take communion in your own church or choose a church together and spend time in both churches or one.

Some orthodox accept the roman pope as first among equals 
I know orthodox think st Cyprian considered him and his bishops as peter from his writings and I buy into that but we can not know. Paul before preaching had to get approval from all the apostles and cephas before he preached maybe he thought his vision could have been a hallucination. Paul rebuked peter even peter can stumble but he is capable of being infallible but not guaranteeed as Paul wrote he who is spiritual judges all things and is rightly judged by none 
But that may not take away From peter having the primacy of honour. The roman church has primacy of honor and is the true pope but orthodox are still completely apostolic and lose nothing from independence because he is the first among equals. But for the sake of the world we are both guilty of no unity and perhaps the roman pope is first among equals I do not know. The world is still responsible to accept Jesus but we help them more by an extra kindness which is God intention and to have opportunity to follow Jesus on earth. As Paul said when all or most the Jews accept Christ which is their fullness how much more will benefit compared to their loss. And in a sense the church witness is not full but both in the churches are still saved


  • I think Jesus told St Peter that he was the rock on which the church is to be built, was because Peter was always making mistakes and needed the confidence of his faith more than the others. We know that Jesus gave the responsibility of His church to all His apostles, thus giving them all authority. There wasn't going to be any more mistakes from St Peter because Jesus strengthened him in the responsibility of his particular church. Jesus used St Peter often as an example concerning faith.
  • That is how our church sees it. It makes sense and there is support from the fathers but I don't think it is very clear what the fathers taught
  • @Joshuaa, that's not the correct interpretation of that verse:

    Matthew 16:16-18-NKJV
    16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

    The 'rock' that Jesus referred to for build His Church on is not St. Peter, it's the faith that he just declared, not of his own mind, but revealed to him by the Father. We don't need to lower St. Peter status among the apostles--he was their leader. But if he was the leader, why wasn't he considered to be the Patriarch of Jerusalem?! We know that St. James, the brother of the Lord, was the one leading the believers in Jerusalem. We also see that from Acts 18, with this whole argument about circumcision.
  • Sorry Mina and especially sorry to Saint Peter for my mis-reprsentation and ask forgiveness.
    Before I came to our church I went to Roman Catholic bible study and just reading from their comments on Acts 18 in the book I've got is that the Emperor after expelling Jews from Rome, did not distinguish between Jews and Christen Jews. It also says in Acts Paul took every opporttunity to show that he remained a practicing Jew ie shaving his head because of a vow .Num6:1-21.
  • In Acts 10:1-8 1 There was a certain manin Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment, 2 a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always. 3 About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God coming in and saying to him, "Cornelius!" 4 And when he observed him, he was afraid, and said, "What is it Lord?" So he said to him, "Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before God. 5 Now send men to Joppa, and send for Simon whose surname is Peter. 6 He is lodging with Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea. He will tell you what you must do." 7 And when the angel who spoke to him departed, Cornelius called two of his household servants and a devout soldier from among those who waited on him continually. 8 So when he had explianed all these things to them, he send then to Joppa.

      Next we have the vision to Peter.
     Acts 10:9-23 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungryand wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of of four footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, "Rise, Peter; kill and eat." 14 But Peter said "Not so Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean." 15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, "What God has cleansed you must not call common." 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again. 17 Now while Peter wondered within himself what these vision which he had seen meant, behold, the men who had been sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate. 18 And they called and asked whether Simon, whose surname was Peter, was lodging there. 19 While Peter thought about about the vision, the Spirit said to him, "Behold, three men are seeking you. 20 Arise threrefore go down and go with them, doubting nothing; for I have sent them." Then Peter went down to the men who had been sent to him from Cornelius and said, "Yes I am he whom you seek. For what reason have you come?" 22 And they said, Cornelius  the centurion, a just man, one who fears God and has a good reputation among all the nations of the Jews, was divinely instructed by a holy angel to summon to his house, and to hear words from you. 23 Then he invited them in and lodged them. On the next day Peter went away with them, and some brethren from Joppa accompanied him.

      It means that because of the vision of the unclean food descending from the sheet and Peter accepted it after three times, that the Holy Spirit clensed what was unclean, that now gentiles can approach God.
       I wonder if the three times of the food is a blessing in the name of the Trinity?

      Acts 10 34-48  Then Peter opened his mouth and said, "In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. 36 The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ- He is Lord of all- 37 that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism  which John preached: 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and the power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they killed by hanging on a tree. 40 Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42 And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to teastify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. 43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever belives in Him will recieve remission of sins." 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those who were of the curcumcision who  belived were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on to the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speck with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, 47 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who recieved the Holy Spirit just as we have?" 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

       This clearly shows the Lord God accepting the gentiles into His grace, that they can approach Him and reseive His salvation by Saint Peter. 
  • edited May 2017
    Still no Catholic can be saved even if he believes others might be saved who are non Christian.It is not preparing them for tribulation
    And I think Catholics probably believe non Christians who believe in Christ but do not convert are saved.
    That leads to why then do those Catholics think it is easier for non Christians to be saved ? Perhaps they also non Christians for example Muslims have to die for sake of accepting both Muslims and Christians
    because they believe Christ is for everyone
    If you denied Christ perhaps later you must confess him and accept death if they punish you

    God protects most of us but those who suffer jesus says no temptation has overtaken you more than you can handle and they are chosen to receive many crowns as st george did who was tortured for 7 years

    This article made me think more
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