Pray for Lands of Immigration Conference

qawe

emg said:

More Reflections on the Seminar:

http://frmichaelsorial.com/2015/06/05/loiseminar-visionforthefuture/

Fr Pishoy Salama's suggestion of "4 types of churches" is ridiculous and I am at a loss [ ... omitted by admin ].

In Orthodoxy, we don't have different 'types' of churches, there is One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church which is eucharistically incarnate within space and time.

The suggestion of 'Pure Evangelism churches' implies that genuine American churches like St Paul's American Coptic Orthodox in Los Angeles are not evangelising properly (which is blatantly false). A church which 'purely' evangelises is not a real church as evangelism is but one task of Christ's church.

Further, 'outreach' is a term that has been commonly used in recent Western church history to denote diluting the Church's liturgical experience by adding diametrically opposed Charismatic 'worship'. It is a Machiavellian mentality of "The end justifies the means".

Here is a very relevant article that everyone should read: http://returntoorthodoxy.com/america-perversion-christianity-stephen-freeman/

qawe

I'm reposting the Return to Orthodoxy article here as it's so important:  

[ edited by admin...this has been already posted in its entirety. One may comment on some points but not post an entire article here ]

emg

Dear qawe,

I think Fr. Michael simply and objectively summarized what he witnessed in Egypt. He simply recited what various speakers highlighted and he did not take positions nor did he make recommendations. Why are you disappointed that he is mentioning the various opinions?

qawe

emg said:

Dear qawe,

I think Fr. Michael simply and objectively summarized what he witnessed in Egypt. He simply recited what various speakers highlighted and he did not take positions nor did he make recommendations. Why are you disappointed that he is mentioning the various opinions?

Dear emg,

Out of the respect I hold for you and the St Cyril Society, I will edit out my last line, which I agree is inappropriately worded.

And I see what you're saying, but I can also see that the summary is selective bordering on biased (only directly quoting from one presentation - and a questionable one at that).

God bless.

emg

qawe said:

emg said:

Dear qawe,

I think Fr. Michael simply and objectively summarized what he witnessed in Egypt. He simply recited what various speakers highlighted and he did not take positions nor did he make recommendations. Why are you disappointed that he is mentioning the various opinions?

Dear emg,

Out of the respect I hold for you and the St Cyril Society, I will edit out my last line, which I agree is inappropriately worded.

And I see what you're saying, but I can also see that the summary is selective bordering on biased (only directly quoting from one presentation - and a questionable one at that).

God bless.

Dear qawe,

I truly appreciate your sentiment. I personally share your opinion on the erroneous dissection of the One Church into 'types'.

At any rate, having seen a full account of the minutes, I know that Fr. Michael remained objective, while seemingly 'selective' or 'biased', I assure you he only gave an account of the most ascendant points regardless of their ecclesiological accuracy. I pray for the spirit of discernment to inform our decisions as a church.

May Christ protect your zeal.

Remnkemi

Emmanuel, you are privy to the minutes of the conference and we are not. We must assume that either there was opposition to the divisive nature of church "types" or acceptance of such false ecclesiology. Simply stating that four types of churches were presented without a description of how it was accepted/rejected leaves us all uneasy. 

But we trust in our fathers. Hopefully, an official description of the seminar can be sent out as soon as possible for us all.

minasoliman

From what I gather from my cousin who attended and spoke at the conference, he mentioned that it was an open atmosphere of all people, lay youth and clergy, who would share any and all views to the Pope without any feelings of repercussions.  It seemed like it was a way of the Pope who wanted to hear all world Coptic views and be able to have an answer for them in the future when he deals with each case one by one.  It does not seem like a conference that would lead to some sort of final authoritative decision any time soon, but just a forum of dialogue.  I was told that equally opposing views were presented.  I am sure that there had to be a clergy or two that would offer disagreements to Abouna Pishoy Salama's proposals.

emg

Dear Remnkemi,

I think minasoliman described the situation aptly. It was more of a showcase of the most notable trends of thought in the diaspora.

I look forward to an official statement as well.