judas zafaa procession significants/rite?

markmarcos

what is the rite or significance of the procession of judas? opposite way? and my priest said that some traditions are to hold an upside down chair in the zaffa? did u guys ever hear of this?

Amoussa01

the idea is to renounce what Judas did, thus we go in an opposite direction and not greet each other with a kiss....maybe we can alter the rites so we can put shoes and socks on our hands doing hand-stands while readings the words in the book backwards too

....I kid of course

minasoliman

lol

minasoliman

I saw this:

http://tasbeha.org/community/index.php?p=/discussion/13164/judas-procession/p1

It seems to be significant to refute against any idea that Judas was necessary for salvation.

minasoliman

Upon further reading, it looks like this is a later addition to Coptic tradition, post-14th century.

markmarcos

lol thanks ammoussa... and thx mina soliman

Remnkemi

As far as I can tell, the earliest manuscript evidence for the Judas hymn or Judas procession is late 19th/early 20th century. There might be something earlier than the 19th century, but no earlier than 14th century. 

Regarding your original post, I have heard or seen, procession around a chair, wearing the tonya backwards, using the cymbals backwards and walking backwards. The idea of an upside down chair is not far fetched.  But all of these customs are wrong, in my opinion. 

Amoussa01's comment, albeit satirical, reinforces what Ramez said a year ago in that thread minasoliman referenced. Ramez said "we should not be blindly validating current rituals with all sorts of symbolism and justification, as if there is no chance some of our minor rituals (like this procession) could have departed from the balanced Patristic mindset of earlier ages." Not only are we blindly validating current rituals but we are taking a step further with modifying it willy-nilly with all sorts of strange and foreign customs that have appeared. We have completely lost the balanced patristic mindset of our early fathers. 

christ_rose

Can you post the earliest manuscript Rem?? Thank you