Hi, Is the orthodox christmas celebrated on the 7th of January only exclusive to non-Chalcedonian Churches, or is it both?
Its just, apparently a friend of mine who is Greek told me that the greeks celebrate christmas on the 25th December, yet on the news, it shows that the Greeks and Russians celebrate Christmas on the 7th also, the same as us:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7814759.stm
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Hi, Is the orthodox christmas celebrated on the 7th of January only exclusive to non-Chalcedonian Churches, or is it both?
Its just, apparently a friend of mine who is Greek told me that the greeks celebrate christmas on the 25th December, yet on the news, it shows that the Greeks and Russians celebrate Christmas on the 7th also, the same as us:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7814759.stm
well officially speaking, it's called the "Eastern Orthodox Christmas", and we, being Orthodox to, generally speaking, stick ourselves with them.
BUT what i recently found out is that there are more then on "See", "Chair" within the Greek Church. like it's a whole different church within Egypt and outside egypt, and maybe in the US, not sure. but i know they are kind of saparate in Egypt from what you'd think they are with; "The Greek Orthodox Church of GREECE"
serbian and russian eastern orthodox and ethiopian oriental orthodox (and obv. our 'daughter' churches such as eritrean, british and french orthodox). the armenians use 6th jan, not 7th (don't know why, the sites i saw claim we use the same calendar).
basically a lot of churches changed to 25th dec as it is easier in most countries so u don't have to go to work the next day on 3 hours sleep!! i think most churches will end up with 25th as its not thedate but the event thats important.
my colleague at work who is indian syrian malankara orthodox (oriental, like us) says they changed it to 25th sometime in his parents or grandparents lifetime.
me? i celebrated both! although 25th was a bit strange without meat :)
Armenians has joined celebration of Christmass and Theofania in same day. As far as I know, 6 January is Theofania according to Gregorian calender
well that's a different. to us Copts, Theofania (or as we say Theophany and that is also Epiphany), is around the 19th of Jan, not the 6th or 7th.
well that's a different. to us Copts, Theofania (or as we say Theophany and that is also Epiphany), is around the 19th of Jan, not the 6th or 7th.
On Theophany, Serbian ORthodox Church performs so called "great blessing of the water" (I hope you will understand what I am trying to say, since I am not an scholar theologist nor perfect in English language).
What about Coptic Church? Are there any special ceremonies for Theophany (I wrote by mistake as Theofania :))
I have noted that Coptics and all Oriental Orthodoxes cross thmeselves on the same way as we (Eastern Orthodoxes) do. Am I right?
I have also found somewhere that Armeanians does have the exact same faith as Copts, Syriacs etc. Namely, I read that Armenian Apostolic Church believes that the body of our Lord Jesus Christ is not fully substantial with the human body and therefore for Eucharist they use bread without ferment (same as Roman Catholics). So, is the Coptich Church in full communion (which means Eucharistic) with the Armenian Apostolic Church?
Greeting from Serbia!
Your brother in Christ
Ivan
Hi, Is the orthodox christmas celebrated on the 7th of January only exclusive to non-Chalcedonian Churches, or is it both?
Its just, apparently a friend of mine who is Greek told me that the greeks celebrate christmas on the 25th December, yet on the news, it shows that the Greeks and Russians celebrate Christmas on the 7th also, the same as us:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7814759.stm
My Greek Orthodox roommate also celebrates on the 7th of January. This just reminded me that I did not give him Christmas wishes. :(
The Greek Orthodox Church is a huge congregation, and there are some who follow the Old Calendar (The Julian Calendar). The Russian Orthodox also celebrate it on the 7th.
Remember, we celebrate it on the 25th of December of the Old Calendar! We celebrate it with the Catholics and Reformed, as much as those in different timezones still celebrate the Liturgy at the same times, but according to their own time zone.
The Ancient Church celebrated it in May, if I remember correctly.
This is a contentious issue, and does not seem to edify. Forgive me, for I know we are not arguing about which is right on this thread.St Paul warns St. Timothy not to belittle the gospel and fellowship, by these disputes, such as "genealogies etc." I think this Calendar business would be on the list.
romanians (orthodox) and russians do right to left.
i don't know about everyone else, can you fill us in?
does anyone know why the difference? i think it's ok to do it the other way if you're in the other church.
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=7526.msg99067#msg99067 date=1231319342]
Hi, Is the orthodox christmas celebrated on the 7th of January only exclusive to non-Chalcedonian Churches, or is it both?
Its just, apparently a friend of mine who is Greek told me that the greeks celebrate christmas on the 25th December, yet on the news, it shows that the Greeks and Russians celebrate Christmas on the 7th also, the same as us:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7814759.stm
My Greek Orthodox roommate also celebrates on the 7th of January. This just reminded me that I did not give him Christmas wishes. :(
The Greek Orthodox Church is a huge congregation, and there are some who follow the Old Calendar (The Julian Calendar). The Russian Orthodox also celebrate it on the 7th.
Remember, we celebrate it on the 25th of December of the Old Calendar! We celebrate it with the Catholics and Reformed, as much as those in different timezones still celebrate the Liturgy at the same times, but according to their own time zone.
The Ancient Church celebrated it in May, if I remember correctly.
This is a contentious issue, and does not seem to edify. Forgive me, for I know we are not arguing about which is right on this thread.St Paul warns St. Timothy not to belittle the gospel and fellowship, by these disputes, such as "genealogies etc." I think this Calendar business would be on the list.
I agree with you about Calendar issue. it is sad that some groups used Calendar question as an argument for schism...
(a) this shouldn't be a contentious issue
(b) this is a novel issue- I mean the diaspora era of Copts is recent; Copts in Egypt have no reason to change practice
(c) Eastern Orthodox Church follow different dates pertaining to this issue- some on the 6th, others on the 7th
(d) there is many more things in the way of Ecumenism, and I am quite certain this will not be in the way (look how the Greeks have done so well)
(e) ironically, we are probably both "wrong"
It just serves to highlight the wisdom of St. Paul's advice to St. Timothy!
[quote author=minagir link=topic=7526.msg99151#msg99151 date=1231614198]
well that's a different. to us Copts, Theofania (or as we say Theophany and that is also Epiphany), is around the 19th of Jan, not the 6th or 7th.
On Theophany, Serbian ORthodox Church performs so called "great blessing of the water" (I hope you will understand what I am trying to say, since I am not an scholar theologist nor perfect in English language).
What about Coptic Church? Are there any special ceremonies for Theophany (I wrote by mistake as Theofania :))
I have noted that Coptics and all Oriental Orthodoxes cross thmeselves on the same way as we (Eastern Orthodoxes) do. Am I right?
I have also found somewhere that Armeanians does have the exact same faith as Copts, Syriacs etc. Namely, I read that Armenian Apostolic Church believes that the body of our Lord Jesus Christ is not fully substantial with the human body and therefore for Eucharist they use bread without ferment (same as Roman Catholics). So, is the Coptich Church in full communion (which means Eucharistic) with the Armenian Apostolic Church?
Greeting from Serbia!
Your brother in Christ
Ivan
well...yes. during our Theophany/Epiphany we also the do the blessing of the water liturgy. BUT, on different different time.
By the middle of the 4th century the nativity was beginning to be celebrated in Rome on the 25th December, and between 30 and 50 years later was introduced into the East at Constantinople and Antioch. In the West it celebrated the nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the visit of the Wise Men, while the 6th January remained dedicated to the Baptism of Christ. In the East it was only the nativity itself which was celebrated on 25th January and the visit of the Wise Men remained as part of the Theophany celebrations with the Baptism of Christ.
In Armenia the earlier tradition prevailed and the celebration of all these events in the life of Christ takes place on the 6th January.
Of course we now have the added complication of various groups being on different calendars so that we could celebrate Christmas several times with different Orthodox communities, and here in the UK I sometimes do.
This should at least cause us to be aware that for many centuries there was no December 25th celebration at all, and even the substance of the celebrations on that date have always been varied even within the united Church of the earliest times. It seems to have caused no major scandal that the Wise Men visited Christ on 25th December in Rome and 6th January in Antioch, and so perhaps it should not scandalise us. If we want to be absolutely Apostolic then it is the Armenians who have preserved the oldest tradition.
As ever
Peter
GB
copts, british orthodox, eritreans, catholics and anglicans cross themselves from left to right.
romanians (orthodox) and russians do right to left.
i don't know about everyone else, can you fill us in?
does anyone know why the difference? i think it's ok to do it the other way if you're in the other church.
we (Serbian Orthodoxies) do it like Russians and all other EO's.
But my point was not on direction "right to left and vice versa".
I was interested in the way how you OO's join fingers while crossings and what does that symbolize?