Our church does not believe in purgatory. how come in the liturgy, we ask for God to repose the souls of those who have gone. The word repose means peace or rest. Why do we ask for God to give them rest if they go straight to heaven?
will that actually do anything? I mean, if a person dies and goes to hades, doesnt that mean at the end of the world he will go to hell? Or is there a chance that if the priest prays for him God will take him from hades to paradise?
Although any sin a person does willingly and is conscious of it cannot be forgiven without confession and repentance, a sin a person does unconsciously might be forgiven. This is one of the main purposes of a funeral. The priest and the people attending a funeral pray that the sins a person did unconsciously and the sins the person did not have a chance to repent from are forgiven. My source on this viewpoint is my local priest since I asked him what the point of remembering the dead is. That was his response. So basically, we pray that the hidden sins in a person are forgiven. That is the point of praying for the deceased.
To the Catholics (i think) its the waiting place where you can work off you bad deeds... basically you still have a chance to make up your mistakes on earth.. I don't know exactly how someone can work off deeds.. but I heard they just do a whole bunch of "good deeds" then they are saved. By the way, they say this place is just for the faithful that messed a few times and aren't completely ready for heaven yet, neither do they deserve hell b/c they're "too good" for that.. apparently... but I wouldn't quote any of that.. this is all what I think, I'm pretty sure there's another (better) explanation to purgatory.
[quote author=mahraeel link=topic=7413.msg98041#msg98041 date=1228709244] oh thanks but we dont believe in it? how come?
+mahraeel+
It is a very dangerous heretical idea because through this, you are saying the blood of Christ is not enough to purify you from your sins. From what i've heard, you don't actually work off your bad deeds in purgatory but it's more like a timed hell where you are purified from your sins and then are able to go to heaven. Also, I believe the catholic church says that all good people must go to purgatory before heaven to become purified. I know this is very broad but I think it serves as a good understanding of it.
PopeKyrillos is correct, this is very heretical. As he said by saying we need to go to purgatory first denies Christ complete work of salvation for the entire human race as if it were not enough. They don't believe in a paradise or hades and therefore if you go through purgatory you go straight to the Kingdom of Heaven and not a waiting place. Again as PopeKyrillos said, its not necessarily doing good deeds but in a state of nothingness where you pay for your "venial" sins as they put it, which is sins that are "minor" like a lie.
i believe in the book of revelation it says that "nothing shall enter without being purified" wouldnt this mean there is a purgatory to be purified. but in Luke Jesus says to thief "you will enter the kingdom TODAY" meaning there is no purgatory. im very confused by this. maybe im not understanding it correctly. please someone clarify.
[quote author=Galations5:22 link=topic=7413.msg98140#msg98140 date=1228946142] i believe in the book of revelation it says that "nothing shall enter without being purified" wouldnt this mean there is a purgatory to be purified. but in Luke Jesus says to thief "you will enter the kingdom TODAY" meaning there is no purgatory. im very confused by this. maybe im not understanding it correctly. please someone clarify.
Yes, you must be purified. Only thing is, Christ meant you need to be purified through baptism, confession and repentance, communion etc. So no, there is no purgatory. The blood of Christ is enough to purify you of every hidden fault.
[quote author=Galations5:22 link=topic=7413.msg98140#msg98140 date=1228946142] i believe in the book of revelation it says that "nothing shall enter without being purified" wouldnt this mean there is a purgatory to be purified. but in Luke Jesus says to thief "you will enter the kingdom TODAY" meaning there is no purgatory. im very confused by this. maybe im not understanding it correctly. please someone clarify.
22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it,[j] for the glory[k] of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24 And the nations of those who are saved[l] shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.[m] 25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it.[n] 27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes[o] an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.
As PopeKyrillos said, we have been purified through baptism, confession, repentance, and communion, and thus if we continue to partake of these sacraments (excluding baptism, thats a one time thing) we will be written in the book of life.
If A person dies without Christ he will not inherit the kingdom of God, and there is absolutely no way for anyone's prayers to alter his destiny. Its all in the Good Book.
If our loved ones die without Christ, and in many cases we don't know whether they have or haven't, it's dreadful to imagine them cut off for all eternity. Yes, it's their decision but you have a fairly good chance of going from cradle to grave without hearing Christ's saving message in its fulness, especially in this country(UK)
As a good work we can pray for the repose of someone after they have 'fallen asleep'. It is said to comfort them and by God's mercy help them. It is certainly comforting for those left behind. We can't judge so we pray that the Lord will have mercy upon them.
[quote author=deaconmark123 link=topic=7413.msg98212#msg98212 date=1229042929] well a sin could be as simple as complaining about the weather outside.....so during confession you have to make sure you mention that too right?
Well complaining itself is a sin, so whenever you see something bad (or good) like that just say "noshkoor allah", b/c really he controls the weather, and your just complaining about something he made... everything that is done is done under God's will.
I was always under the impression that the idea of purgatory was started in the 1600s by the Catholic Church as a way to build up funds. Perhaps someone can correct me on this, or give me some sort of referes that I can look up.
I know for a fact that the CoC doesn't believe in such a place.
Comments
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven".
-Matthew 7:21
So when the priest prays for God to repose their souls, he is praying that they inherit the heavenly kingdom and not spend eternity in Hell.
PK
PK
+mahraeel+
but we dont believe in it? how come?
+mahraeel+
oh thanks
but we dont believe in it? how come?
+mahraeel+
It is a very dangerous heretical idea because through this, you are saying the blood of Christ is not enough to purify you from your sins. From what i've heard, you don't actually work off your bad deeds in purgatory but it's more like a timed hell where you are purified from your sins and then are able to go to heaven. Also, I believe the catholic church says that all good people must go to purgatory before heaven to become purified. I know this is very broad but I think it serves as a good understanding of it.
PK
Why most of them are actually non-religious.
i believe in the book of revelation it says that "nothing shall enter without being purified" wouldnt this mean there is a purgatory to be purified. but in Luke Jesus says to thief "you will enter the kingdom TODAY" meaning there is no purgatory. im very confused by this. maybe im not understanding it correctly. please someone clarify.
Yes, you must be purified. Only thing is, Christ meant you need to be purified through baptism, confession and repentance, communion etc. So no, there is no purgatory. The blood of Christ is enough to purify you of every hidden fault.
i believe in the book of revelation it says that "nothing shall enter without being purified" wouldnt this mean there is a purgatory to be purified. but in Luke Jesus says to thief "you will enter the kingdom TODAY" meaning there is no purgatory. im very confused by this. maybe im not understanding it correctly. please someone clarify.
Do you have the reference for that verse?
22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it,[j] for the glory[k] of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24 And the nations of those who are saved[l] shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.[m] 25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it.[n] 27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes[o] an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.
As PopeKyrillos said, we have been purified through baptism, confession, repentance, and communion, and thus if we continue to partake of these sacraments (excluding baptism, thats a one time thing) we will be written in the book of life.
As a good work we can pray for the repose of someone after they have 'fallen asleep'. It is said to comfort them and by God's mercy help them. It is certainly comforting for those left behind. We can't judge so we pray that the Lord will have mercy upon them.
well a sin could be as simple as complaining about the weather outside.....so during confession you have to make sure you mention that too right?
Well complaining itself is a sin, so whenever you see something bad (or good) like that just say "noshkoor allah", b/c really he controls the weather, and your just complaining about something he made... everything that is done is done under God's will.
I know for a fact that the CoC doesn't believe in such a place.
+Pray for me+