Why is the Old Testament SOO VIOLENT and the NEW so NON VIOLENT?

edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
Hi,
Why did the LORD command that people be killed for working on the Sabbath? Is it so bad that it deserves death? Did the jews really kill people for working on the sabbath??

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

    The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever.  It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.  Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy.  Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community.  Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest.  I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.'  (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

    For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites.  You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment.  They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it.  Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again.  Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.'  (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)


OK.. let's say that someone accidentally walks in the Tabernacle. Does that mean he should be put to death .Did any jew actually get killed for that!??

I'm gonna be adding more questions to this thread as time goes by.

I would really appreciate your answers.

THANKS

Comments

  • This is exactly what we learned today in pre-servants! anyways..God never commanded whoever WORKS on the sabath day should be killed..he simply said who ever desecrates its should be dead..but if you work on it "he should be cut off the community" not killed.

    The second point about approaching the tabernacle..look the tabernacle isnt like an invisible thing anyone could simply go on, NO its a big tent which was known for ALL people as the most sacred place ever..so obviously whoever is guna go in there is going on purpose and not like "wopps didnt mean to" i hope that helped a bit..

    GBU
    sandra
  • Sandra,
    I agree with you and everything, but there are a couple parts that you missed about the tabernacle.
    a) Only Levites can enter
    b) Only Priests can enter the Holies
    c) Only the High Priest can enter the Holy of Holies once a year (for Atonement)
    Anyone that cannot follow those rules must be killed. Anyone that touched the Tabernacle that wasn't a Levite or a priest (even if it was falling down) can not try to touch it or else they died. God was very strict in the Old Testament whatever He said, goes, because the Old Testament is known mostly as a time of crisis between Man and God (Gate of Heaven: closed). The New Testament is known mostly as a time of rejoicing because God and Man have reconciled once more (Gate of Heaven: opened). You can also look at it like Jesus was the Gate. When He was crucified, the Gate of Heaven was opened to anyone who believed in Him and to those who died for Him.
  • We must not ignore the role of the OT Law as symbolic and prophetic. Just as the laws concerning the sacrifice of animals prefigured in quite an extreme way the sacrifice of our Lord on the Cross, the death penalties imposed for major sins showed the connection between sin and death.

    All these regulations - however harsh they may seem - provided the necessary context in which the Incarnation took place.

    We must also bear in mind that the burden of proof was so high that these death penalties were very rarely carried out. I remember a Rabbi once saying that if the Sanhedrin sentenced more than 3 people to death in a single year, this would be considered a "bloody court."

    We should not and cannot look at the Old Testament without taking into consideration its fulfillment by Christ.

    OK.. let's say that someone accidentally walks in the Tabernacle. Does that mean he should be put to death .Did any jew actually get killed for that!??

    That's a bit like asking "what if someone accidentally walks into a bank vault?" You couldn't just stroll in there, let alone by accident.
  • well this might not have to do with this specificly. but i guess it does. The Old Testemant wassnt all correct. Jesus Christ came and corrected things, he made us Christians for an example.....
  • [quote author=He Wept link=topic=5827.msg78290#msg78290 date=1192331145]
    well this might not have to do with this specificly. but i guess it does. The Old Testemant wassnt all correct. Jesus Christ came and corrected things, he made us Christians for an example.....


    Theologically speaking, this cannot be true. If Christ is the Word of God, then He spoke to the prophets and the people of Israel and Moses. He spoke to them. If God created the world through His Son, it means He also spoke to the Prophets THROUGH His Son. His Son, the Logos, will not say one thing and then change His mind afterwards. That's not on.
  • [quote author=Orthodox11 link=topic=5827.msg78281#msg78281 date=1192290594]

    OK.. let's say that someone accidentally walks in the Tabernacle. Does that mean he should be put to death .Did any jew actually get killed for that!??

    That's a bit like asking "what if someone accidentally walks into a bank vault?" You couldn't just stroll in there, let alone by accident.



    But that's the excuse I always give whenever I find myself in that situation. "I was just passing by".

    Anyway, thanks for the answers. Could you answer all the questions below though mate? Cheers, and keep in touch. Haven't seen u in the longest time.
  • Yeah, but QT_PA_2T, that isn't valid to the public.
  • ok....to the questiont which was mentioned....
    a bishop said once to me....god had to be strong to the people in the old testament cause he wantet to make a strong population a strong and godfearing poulation where he can rise "his son" out of them....
    i hope u got it...my english is bad now....hope u forgive me
    pp4m
    aripsalin
  • But it does not really seem that they became a God-Fearing Nation. Look at the countless quotes of how Israel would not hear the voice of her own Messiah! I am sorry but this reason makes no sense to me, no disrespect to that Bishop.
  • We might note here that the OT shows what happens to a people which falls away from the word of the Lord, so it should not surprise us that there is much there which shows the consequences of our disobedience to the Lord.

    The NT is the story of the Incarnation and of the taking of the Word of God to the whole world, so its whole thrust is in a different direction. Both show us what God thinks it needful for us to know. The history of humanity since Apostolic times shows us, rather as the OT does, the consequences of our disobedience. Our inability to learn is perhaps an example of why we needed the Incarnation - and why we need the Church.

    In Christ,

    Anglian
  • [quote author=sandrahanna link=topic=5827.msg78272#msg78272 date=1192243728]
    This is exactly what we learned today in pre-servants! anyways..God never commanded whoever WORKS on the sabath day should be killed..he simply said who ever desecrates its should be dead..but if you work on it "he should be cut off the community" not killed.

    The second point about approaching the tabernacle..look the tabernacle isnt like an invisible thing anyone could simply go on, NO its a big tent which was known for ALL people as the most sacred place ever..so obviously whoever is guna go in there is going on purpose and not like "wopps didnt mean to" i hope that helped a bit..

    GBU
    sandra


    Sandra,
    where are u reading from? It says "whoever desecrates it must die" - period.
  • That is exactly what Sandra said!
  • [quote author=clay link=topic=5827.msg88856#msg88856 date=1212029829]
    That is exactly what Sandra said!

    Well that's just dandy clay!

    Then isn't that a tad bit violent??
  • There's so much more Old Testament than New Testament.  The New Testament was written within a period 50 years, and the Old Testament over a stretch of a thousand years or so, and is so much larger.

    If you were to make the New Testament proportionate to the Old Testament, how much more violence would you find?

    For example, what about Ananias and Sapphira who sold property and gave most of the money to the church, but were slain for lying about withholding a portion of it?  What about Elymas who was struck blind for his opposition to Paul? 

    What about the book of Revelation?  Wow!  Lots of violence, torment, etc.

    What about Jesus' teaching about being cast into gehenna (hell), where the fire is not quenched, and the worm never dies?

    What about Jesus' casting out of the "goats" for not doing good to the "least of these," damning them to an eternal hell prepared for the devil and his angels?

    What about Jesus' sermon against the cities of Galilee in Matt 11:  "I tell you, it will be better for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for you."

    What about Jesus' condemnation of the Pharisees?  "You snakes!  You hypocrites!  How will you escape from being condemned to hell!" Just read the entire chapter of Matt 23.



    I'm not sure you can assume that the Old Testament is so much more violent than the New Testament.
  • Nice post Herr Schoyen! God has always been about love and vengeance. The God of the New testament is the same God of the Old testament . In the OT, God was the king of Israel and He used to pour out his anger on them when they deviated from his commandments.He also led them into wars against their enemies (eg,Moses and Joshua as a leader) and utterly devastated those who did not know Him. We should also not forget that man and animal was wiped out from the face of the earth as a result of wickdness and evilness.Thus,there should be no surprise there. In the NT, The Lord Christ took upon his shoulders the anger of God which was prepared for us.As a result of it,we received the choice to be saved  and thus less punished as long as we  genuinely repent and confess our misdeeds. Again, in the N T, man is warned of the grave consequences of sin and God’s ultimate wrath on sinners would be much more fiercer than in the OT:The sinner will be damned to his eternal damnation.
  • When i asked why the Old and New testaments were so different my Priest said:

    Look at it like this, you have a little child, and you want to teach him to fast Lent.
    Are you going to start making Him fast ALL 40 days?

    Of course not you start with small steps.

    Thats exactly wat God did, he took what man messed up and worked with it, he took one nation and worked with them, and brought them up and eventually those who wished to continue became Christian
  • Hi,
    I am new to this site.  This is my first time reply to a question that I asked my father of confession 5 years ago.  I asked him why God was so hard on His people in the old testament and I personally broke His commandments but He did not gave up on me?. 

    The answer that when our kids were little, he had to teach them and punish them to grow up disciplined.  Now our kids are grown and we treat them in a different way. 

    God was disciplining His people but He had mercy on them. 
  • I also heard it explained like this:

    It's not God who's different between the OT and the NT, but rather the people.
    Back then, religion as in monotheism serving JHWH was threatened by many tribes worshipping statues and things like that. God had to be strict with them to perserve his people from falling and being tempted by this grave danger, he had to discipline them and be strict on them, otherwise they all would have fell to pagan religions.

    God Bless
    Please pray for me, a sinner
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