only 144,000 people will be redeemed from earth?

edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
I just read a verse in the Book of Revelations and there was a verse that said only 144,000 people will be redeemed from earth, in other words only 144,000 people will go 2 heaven.
i just want to know if it's simbolic or literal. i no that jehova's witnesses ppl think it's literal.
I've been thinking about it all the time and that number represents on sand out of a whole beach to me.



  • Of course this is a symbolic # i can't think of what it means now but its in the bible commentary by Fr. Tadros Malaty. In Paradise now there has to be more than 144,000 righteous people now.(of course i don't know that for sure) but to say that its a literal # is quite ridiculous, that means that almost none of us will go to heaven. Now i can't remember the context of the verse but it could be referring to the people redeemed at the time of Judgement(as in the people living on earth in the last days)
  • [quote author=100%4JESUS link=topic=6437.msg85013#msg85013 date=1207179946]
    I just read a verse in the Book of Revelations and there was a verse that said only 144,000 people will be redeemed from earth, in other words only 144,000 people will go 2 heaven.
    i just want to know if it's simbolic or literal. i no that jehova's witnesses ppl think it's literal.
    I've been thinking about it all the time and that number represents on sand out of a whole beach to me.


    i thought that to when i read it. but it refers to the 144, 000 out of the tribes of Israel.

    Revelations 7th
    And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed: of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed....

    but all togather are from every tribe, nation....and unnumberable,
  • well.... with all what is happening to Christianity... divorces, same sex mariages... etc...  it is shrincking... maybe on judgement day, there would only be 144000 people that r worthy Christians... 
  • It's hard to believe that out of the 6,500,000,000 people we have today (and who knows how much more we will have in the future) only 144,000 of them will be chosen at the end.
  • im guessing that by the time judgment day has come, many of the christians will have already been persecuted and killed, leaving only a few.. 144000... dont know, either that or to many people follow the anti christ
  • I remember that the when Herod sought to kill baby Jesus he went and killed 144000 kids aged 2 and under, maybe thats what The Book of Revelation is talking about.

    But i could be very wrong.

    God Bless

    did any one PROVE WHAT I SAID WRONG??
  • How do I get in on that lottery?  The Jehovah's Witnesses are just bizarre with their interpretations.
  • [quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=6437.msg85037#msg85037 date=1207198568]
    How do I get in on that lottery?  The Jehovah's Witnesses are just bizarre with their interpretations.

    i wonder if we have any here??!
  • 144,000 is 12 x12 x10 x10 x10 meaning that 12- the 12 tribes of the old testament, so its saying that the righteous people who lived before Christ will be admitted.
    the second 12- the 12 disciples, so its saying that the people who accepted the teaching of the apostles will be admitted. 
    The number 10 is symbolic of completeness, so when you have 10 being 3 times you are emphasizing the everlasting belief of the trinity which is God.  The number 1000 is also symbolic of eternity.

    So basically it is saying that only the people before and after Christ who had a complete faith in God will live forever.
  • Wow, Zakhary, I am amazed, that is UNBELIEVABLE thinking. Who would know to break the number down to the products that make it up? Very well, I know that 144,000 IS DEFINITELY a symbolic number. And to what Mina said, I HAVE TO disagree, considering that 144,000 people is not many people at all, and it cannot be that few Jewish people are chosen. So, there are definitely more people going to heaven (and Mina, consider that this is written by one of Jewish descent, and he thinks that everyone who will believe in Christ is of the descent of Jacob and the 12 Tribes). John, at the time, was just saying that MANY people will make it to heaven, and that number, that shows completeness, represents the people's complete faith.
  • It's obvious that not just 144,000 will go to heaven. We have more martyrs in our church than that. And on top of that, you have the monks and crossbearers like St. Anthony, St. Macarius etc...

    If only 144,000 people end up in heaven after death, that means that thousands or even millions of the saints we have in our church won't go to heaven. Also, they're is salvation in some other churches outside of Orthodoxy. They have their righteous people too. Way to many people who are considered saints wouldn't go to heaven if only 144,000 will be saved.
  • I thought, Minagir has answered the question rightly.Read it again.

    The 144,000 is a number that is propagated by the Jehova Witness.According to their teaching, the 144,000 are all Witness followers. In other word, folks like us , no matter who much we have pleased God, are destined to  keep Lucifer company.

    It might interest you to know that the Jehova Witness had already predicted the end of the world, in 1914, 1940,s and in the 1970's. The 1970,s part was so distructive to the young witness followers, for they had dropped out of college to prepare for the coming of the Lord:)

    However, I cant help to think,that at the rate that human moral and faith is decaying 144,000 seems to be a large number to enter into the abode of the most high.We should not be concerend about the numbers who inherit the kingdom of God, but worry only about our selves if we are ever going to make it.

    When I read the following writng of a Saint as to what would happen at the moment of death, The prospect of me reaching the first toll house is nil.To understand wht I am mean by a Toll house:

    Read the follwing link (but not recommened for the faint hearted)
  • Hezekial,

    I am surprised that you, as an Ethiopian, would accept any of that nonsense from that website.

    The only toll booths I deal with are in my daily commuting.

    The writings are the Byzantine Tradition and website.  It has nothing to do with the Oriental Orthodox Traditions.  It sounds like a scene from the movie:  "Ghost".

  • To summarise, Zakhary hit the nail on the head: the number 144,000 is symbolic, meaning that many more people will go to heaven on Judgement Day. It has absolutely nothing to do with the numbers of Christians dwindling or anything like that. It is symbolic as Zakhary interpreted by numerology.
  • I would suggest that the number is symbolic.  Note, for example, that the tribe of Dan is missing from the list.  The idea is that every single last person who rightly belongs to the people of God will be saved, whether Jew or Gentile.

    Thus, we should not take the passage as referring to literal Israelites.  Indeed, the northern 10 tribes have been extinct for 2000 years or so.  They were scattered to the ends of the world, separated from their own people, and integrated into new geographical-sociological people groups.  We haven't heard from then since 722 BC.
  • The 144,000 are  from the 12 tribes of Joseph, his brother had a clan of 12,000 per tribe, the 144000 are sealed saint who stay on earth after the Rapture of the Church has taken place, then those 144,000 will continue to spread the word of God, they are sealed by God and cannot be killed, they are on earth till Jesus come back, at the war of Armageddon!!!!!
  • Hi....I am new on here.....I am Coptic Orthodox like most on here....I just wanted to say that some of our great Fathers also write about toll houses....such as St.Cyril of Alexandria and St. Athanasius the Apostolic (In the Life of St. Anthony) maybe you guys should consider tht before disregarding it....
  • Hi Everyone!
    it's a coincidence that this topic should come up now! I was watching the Jesus of Nazareth movie and it came to the part where Herod killed all the young children in an attempt to get rid of Jesus and my dad said that 144 000 of these children were killed. i remember reading about that number specifically in the book of Revelations, so i asked him about the relevence of that number and how it related to Revelations. My dad told me that the children who were killed by Herod's command were innocent and are considered as martyrs because they sacrificed their lives to save Christ. That is why those people will be "redeemed from earth" and sit with the Lord in His Kingdom.  the children who were killed were innocent yet they had to suffer and that's why God will reward them.

    this is my first time reading this topic, but (as you could probably imagine) i was so surprised to see it because it's so coincedental that this should happen!!

    Please remember me in your prayers!

  • 1. The book of revelation can be interpreted in many different ways, there are a lot of books that are written by the coptic church fathers regarding Revelation, and I remember the servants/preservant curriculum using one of those to explain it, I just can't recall the name.
    2. 144,000 can mean several things, for one, it could just mean that not everyone will make it since the Lord chose to leave out the tribe of Dan out of the equation, according to a former reply. It could also refer to the defenders of the faith, the ones sent by the Lord to help His chosen ones against the antichrist. It could also refer to the 144000 children who died at the hand of Herod (I have actually heard this one from my father of confession, but he said that it could mean other things too). Who knows, maybe there are more meanings to it than we can see, like the numerical breakdown that zach posted earlier (nice job on that by the way). At any point, if God wanted the world to know EXACTLY what was going to happen and how many were going to make it, then He wouldn't have given everything to John in parables like He did, He meant for us not to know some things, and this is part of His divine wisdom and we should trust that His decision not to tell us everything is for the best.
    3. About the "Toll Booths", I really would like to know the name of a book, or a link to a lecture from a church father before assuming that these "toll booths" are true, simply because you can't believe everything you see on the internet, and nothing personal, but that website seems VERY, erm, how do I say this, "unorthodox"?
    Anyways, try not to think too hard about this topic,
  • "Toll Houses" are not universally accepted in EO. It is more of a Russian concept (although there does exist some other support). It is not dogma or official doctrine.
  • what if it is actually true thou?....  i heard that after all the Churches unite (a necesary step for the the Apocalypse to happen, it is one of the signs) , people will start losing their faith, and Revelations said a third of the world will be killed (or something like that), and then like another third killed???  think so...  what if by the time God actually comes to ?Judge the Earth there will only be 144 000 beleivers left, not because all lost faith, ut because all others were martyred, or killed.. etc... u get my point?..

    plz correct me if i am wrong...

    God Bless

    Coptic Pharaoh
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