As an Orthodox Christian, I am taught that we are the Children of God, but not by being Divine, but through the Spirit of Adoption (that which Saint Paul talks about in Ephesians). Only the Holy Trinity is Divine.
However, protestants and baptists do not see this. They see themselves as Divine. And what gave them that right to think this way? (even though they are baptised by men, not by priests?)
They read Saint Peter's words in 2 PETER 1 to 4:
2Pe 1:4 by which means He has given to us the very great and precious promises, so that through these you might be partakers of the divine nature, escaping from the corruption in the world by lust.
They think they are partakers of the Divine nature in that they have become Divine. But how can they say that? What does Saint Peter mean here when he says that we become partakers of the divine nature?? They have ALL understood this as they are all Godly and like Gods, and absolutely Divine.
Please tell me what u think.
Below are the passages that talk about adoption.
Romans 8:12
So, then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to flesh,
for if you live according to flesh, you are going to die. But if by the Spirit you put to death the practices of the body, you will live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
For you did not receive a spirit of slavery again to fear, but you received a Spirit of adoption by which we cry, Abba! Father!
The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God.
And if children, also heirs; truly heirs of God, and joint-heirs of Christ, if indeed we suffer together, that we may also be glorified together.
Galatians:
But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, having come into being out of a woman, having come under Law,
that He might redeem the ones under Law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
And because you are sons, God sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, Abba! Father!
So that you no more are a slave, but a son, and if a son, also an heir of God through Christ.
But then, indeed, not knowing God, you served as slaves to the ones by nature not being gods.
But now, knowing God, but rather being known by God, how do you turn again to the weak and poor elements to which you desire again to slave anew?
Comments
I think you should revise the doctrine of Theosis.
Feel free Thomas to educate me. I always thought that we DO NOT become Divine, neither through baptism, nor through any sacrament. We PARTAKE of the DIVINITY (i.e communion etc) but we do not become Divine... at all.
You just said it. We partake of the divinity. We do not partake in the divinity. So, like you said, God forbid we should be called divine... As my Father of Confession has said before, we barely know how to act as humans, let alone gods. We partake of the divine nature by partaking with God in his divine work, we partake of his energies, not his essence. Maybe somebody more knowledgeable can elaborate more on this topic, but this is what it comes down to.
Thank u, and thank u again.
Brilliant response. Its always good to quote FoC's, or priests or Bishops. That is a great help.
Would u believe me if i told u that I didnt answer my own question this time? I didnt distinguish between partake of and partake in.
;D I get the credit this time... (As always, you are just the one that posts it... :P) I'm kidding I don't do that...
Why should you get the credit for? It was me that read your message and found it very valuable. If i didnt read it, then we wouldnt be having this conversation - would we??
You didnt think of that - did you? Its for that reason that we should be humble and not search for praise.
"2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."
In other words we have been given "promises" (hmm do I smell sacraments) that through these promises we partake of the divine nature (The Eucharist: John 6:56 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.") in order to live the life of godliness once we have turned away from the world corrupted by lust.
Notice the audience Peter is talking to:
In 2 Peter 1 "To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ"
So these are people who have most likely
a) Already been baptized and
b) Made the decision to live the life of godliness just like peter himself "with us"
Then he continues to offer advice saying in verses 5 - 7
"But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8"
Then he goes on to talk about what will happen if they keep diligent in 10-11
"10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."
http://www.metroplit-bishoy.org/files/articles/partakers.doc
quick quote:
"During the final confession of the Divine Liturgy the priest exhorts that the body and blood of our Lord: “Given for us for salvation, remission of sins, and eternal life to those who partakes of Him”."
"Partaking with God in immortality and eternal life is a great gift which we obtain from Christ and through Christ, by the might of the blood of the life-giving cross, which transferred us from death to life"
Could someone who is in the know explain to me, or at least point me in the right direction here. I fail to see why one cannot say that they partake of the divine nature when one partakes of the Holy Communion. Allow me to explain my point of view, and the feel free to correct me at any point. We, as Orthodox are Miaphysites. We believe that Christ was fully man and fully God (and thus Divine), and that He made the two natures one within Himself 'without mingling, without confusion and without alteration' as we say in the liturgy. Again, as we say in the liturgy, His divinity parted not from His humanity, not for an instant nor a twinkling of an eye. If this is the case, then the body of Christ, while being fully human is also fully divine. Now, IF the Holy Communion is this self-same holy Body that Christ possessed, how can it not be divine? And if it is divine, then how exactly is it incorrect to say that we partake of the divine nature? The purpose of communion is to bring us closer to God, cleanse and purify us, and aids us on our journey towards theosis. Am I missing something? I would greatly appreciate an explanation.
If you notice in the Priest's Last Confession (of any of the Three Divine Liturgies of the Coptic Orthodox Church) which he chants before he distributes the Eucharist, he Confesses that the Eucharist before Him is "the Life-Giving Body of [the] Only-Begotten Son"; so you could go with "Life-giving Body" so as to be more specific regarding its nature. "Holy Body" is perfectly fine though.
(this was a quote from Iqbal). Now I asked Iqbal this question ages ago, simply because he was iqbal and wanted more elaboration.
Communion is the means by which we partake of the divine nature, it enables us to become partakers of the divine nature. I never said that the Holy Body and the Precious Blood we eat during communion is divine, you misunderstood me.
Church Father Quote
"For in the type of bread, his body is given to you, and in the type
of wine, his blood is given to you, so that by partaking of the body and blood of Christ you may become of one body and one blood with Him.” (St. Cyril of Jerusalem)
Another quote from H.E. Metropolitan Bishoy's text
We are partakers of the divine nature in immortality, holiness, kingdom, eternal joy, and love of which our Lord Jesus Christ said in His commune with the Father, “O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.” (Jn 17:26).
And Another quote from H.E. Metropolitan Bishoy's text
"By saying “partakers of the divine nature” Saint Peter simply means that we become partakers with God in His eternal life through partaking in His Holiness, paraphrasing the commandment “Be holy, for I am holy”. "
From the Divine Liturgy
“Given for us for salvation, remission of sins, and eternal life to those who partakes of Him”.
“Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise
him up at the last day… He who eats this bread will live forever” (Jn 6:54,58)
“He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him”
(Jn 6:56)
So if partaking of the HOLY Body and PRECIOUS Blood of our Lord makes us ONE with him, and him in us...And if he is in us then the promise of the love of the Father is therefore in as aswell…and coupled with the fact that it is given for us for salvation, remission of sins and eternal life…and if partaking of his divine nature means we partake with God in his eternal life...than this is partaking of the divine nature (once again I am not saying that the body we eat is divine)
This would change, say, in a Greek Orthodox Church, where they are dyophysite. Then we can say that we are only partaking of his Body and not his divinity. In our church, they are one.
Our Lord was both man and God. His body was in divinity and his divinity in his body (I just made this up to illustrate the point: correct me if this is a heretical statement). When we take the Holy Communion, are we not taking his Body? Therefore, are we not also partaking of his divinity as well?
This would change, say, in a Greek Orthodox Church, where they are dyophysite. Then we can say that we are only partaking of his Body and not his divinity. In our church, they are one.
Hi Severus,
The answer to your question is: no. You are in fact partaking of His Life-Giving Holy Body.
We do not eat Divinity. We eat the Life Giving Holy Body.
Best Regards,
Just like in the union of iron and fire, the iron is not changed into fire or the fire into iron. They are both united without mingling, confusion, or alteration. Hence, the Human nature did not become Divine, and the Divine nature Human.
So what do we partake of:
When saint Peter says :"by which means He has given to us the very great and precious promises, so that through these you might be partakers of the divine nature, escaping from the corruption in the world by lust."
What does all this mean??
It means the following:
We partake in the Divine Nature in the following ways:
We become righteous, wise, loving, merciful, long-suffering - these are the qualities of the Holy Spirit AND therefore the qualities of the Divine Nature. We do not partake of Divinity, but what is the NATURE of Divinity?? If God is Love, then what is the nature of Love? Its selflessness, its patience, it is merciful, it is wise. These are the qualities or a few attributes of the Divine Nature or the Nature of Divinity!!!!
We therefore DO partake of this Divine Nature when we enter through the sacraments of Baptism, confession, communion, but we do not partake of DIVINITY, but the nature of Divinity which are the manifested in fruits of the Holy Spirit that enables us to escape from the corruption in the world by lust.
Excellent response, and the article you were referring to is:
http://www.copticpope.org/downloads/eng_keraza/engkeraza23-02-2007.pdf
Page 12-13
I would like to say , that there are two schools who would interpret the whole thing of Divinity/
Essence and Divinity/ Energies:
The school of Abouna Matta “ Mathew “ Al Meskeen and his disciples,George Habib bebawy and Max Michiel, which teach that we the Christians receive th person of the Holy Spirit when we are baptized and anointed with the Myroon, and we partake of the Divinity of God during the Eucharist. This school is wrong and her teaching is blasphemous. It is the teaching of the 20 th /21 st centuries and has much been influenced by the western philosophies of deification and raising the status of humanity to that of God.
The right school is the one of the Fathers of the Church, old and stable which told us that we partake of the Life giving Body and Blood of our Lord God and saviour and we receive the Grace of the Holy Spirit.
Pray for me.
[quote author=Christ4Life link=topic=5832.msg78338#msg78338 date=1192486235]
;D I get the credit this time... (As always, you are just the one that posts it... :P) I'm kidding I don't do that...
Why should you get the credit for? It was me that read your message and found it very valuable. If i didnt read it, then we wouldnt be having this conversation - would we??
You didnt think of that - did you? Its for that reason that we should be humble and not search for praise.
I had no intention on praise; I was simply trying to say something funny.
In regards to Communion, this is not the only sacrament through which we partake of the divine nature. All of the sacraments include some work with God and consequently his divine nature.
I think that we should beware regarding George Habib Bebawy's teachings... Setting aside his blasphemous teachings which we have heard before through many heretics, he tends to lose his tongue and say improper things concerning the pope...
St Cyril of Alexandria made it clear that although the humanity of Christ was not divine as a matter of essence, since it was indeed consubstantial with us, it was nevertheless divine insofar as it accrued divine properties by virtue of the Hypostatic Union. One of those divine properties which we attest to in our Liturgical confession is the property of "Life-Giving." This property of "Life-Giving" is not one proper to mere humanity; nevertheless it became an attribute of Christ's humanity by virtue of the hypostatic union, and was ultimately realised in His Resurrected body. It is in this sense that Christ's humanity may be said to indeed be divine; it is in this sense, that we may be said to partake of the divine through the Eucharist; finally, it is in this sense that we, in the words of St Athanasius, become divine through participating in the Eucharist.
If we reduce the term 'divine' to an exclsuive reference to the 'divine essence' of God, we deprive ourselves of rich patristic vocabulary and fall victim to impoverished theological articulations.
Iqbal is correct. Christ was human like us, though he in the inside was definitely divine. He was divine in the human nature. The way how I looked at it is as described right after the first this sense.
I am not too sure what you are saying here, but just to make clear: the divine identity of Christ--that is, the person of Christ--relates to the eternal divine essence (which, as we say in the Creed, is consubstantial with that of the Father) He has possessed since time eternity. It is the union between this divine essence that Christ has possessed since eternity, and the created human nature that Christ assumes, that renders the humanity of Christ to be in a sense divine. This does not in any way challenge the distinction between Christ's Divine essence and His humanity, however.
No, we are not. In the post of mine which you quoted I spoke of the particular sense in which we can be said to partake of the divine; this sense has nothing to do with any direct participation in the essence of God.
I should qualify this by saying that I am assuming the simplistic understanding of "partaking of the divine nature" that is generally being used by members here viz. direct participation in the essence of God. The way St Peter uses the phrase more or less confirms the particular sense of participating in the divine that I have been referring to.
By virtue of the Hypostatic Union, the Humanity of Christ accrued the quality of being able to give Life. This was ultimately realised in the Resurrected Humanity of Christ. In this sense, the Humanity of Christ is divine. Not in the sense that it ceased to be human, nor in the sense that it transformed into a divine nature, but in the sense that through its union with Divinity, it was able to accrue certain attributes which are proper to the divine--e.g. the property of being Life-Giving.
As we partake of Communion we in turn partake of this Divine, Life-Giving Body and Blood of Christ. In so doing, the Eucharist's Life-Giving power confers upon us immortality. Immortality, the quality of perpetual life, is a quality of the divine. Nevertheless, by virtue of the Grace of God, we are able to acquire this property. In this sense, we become divine through the Eucharist. Not in the sense that our human nature is obliterated, nor in the sense that we acquire the divine essence of God, but merely in the sense that by the Divine Grace we are able to participate in the Life of God, and hence live as incorruptible and immortal beings.
This is what St Peter refers to when he speaks about our partaking of the Divine Nature. We have fellowship with the Divine Nature in that we, by the Grace of God, are able to share in the Life of God; that we are able to share in those qualities that, although exclusive to the Divine Nature (such as immortality, sinlessness, holiness and incorruptibility), are conferred upon us by His Grace.
As I made clear in my last post, the quality of being able to give Life is a quality of the Divine Nature. Anything that hence possesses this quality is "divine" in the second sense I have defined this adjective in the previous paragraph. In this sense the Humanity of Christ, subsequent to the Resurrection, is divine.
So ultimately, to acknowledge the Body and Blood of Christ to be Life-Giving, is to ultimately acknowledge the Body and Blood of Christ to be in a sense divine.
I can, however, offer the following patristic quotations in support of the general principles i've argued:
1) St Athanasius of Alexandria: 'It is not by partaking of the body of any ordinary man, but by receiving the body of the Logos himself that we are rendered divine.' (Ep. ad Maximum 2)
2) St Kyrillos the Pillar of Faith: 'We certainly do not say that the flesh of the Logos became divinity, but rather that it became divine as being his particular flesh.' (Contra Nestorius, 2.8)
And, from the same: 'If the flesh of a man is called human flesh, why not call the flesh of the God-Logos divine flesh?' (ibid.)
And, from the same: 'If anyone does not confess that the flesh of the Lord is life-giving and the particular property of the Logos himself who is from God the Father, but thinks of it as the flesh of one who is other than himself, conjoined with him in rank or indeed as possessing only a divine indwelling, and not rather that it is lifegiving, as I have said, because it became the particular property of the Logos who has the power to give all things life, let him be anathema.' (the 11th Anathema)
[quote author=Iqbal link=topic=5832.msg78518#msg78518 date=1192792406]
The adjective "divine" can mean many things. In one sense, "divine" indicates possession of the Divine Nature, in a second sense "divine" simply means possessing qualities that are proper to, and hence that can only be Graciously conferred by God, without this entailing any sort of possession of the Divine Nature.
So, when I say, in consideration of the truths propounded by St Cyril in my previous post, that we do not consume the Divinity of Christ, but nevertheless partake of His Divine Humanity, I am not contradicting myself because I am using the terms Divinity/Divine in two different senses (and I have defined these two different senses in the above-quoted passage from my previous post).
According to our Christology, Christ's Nature was a composite nature of Divinity united to Humanity. Because of this Unity of the Natures into One Nature, the Humanity of Christ, whilst never confused with His Divinity, was 'divine' in the sense it acquired, by virtue of its union with the Divinity of Christ, certain divine properties (e.g. the property of giving Life). In this sense, His Humanity was divine, as St Cyril states, but it was still Humanity, not Divinity (i.e. it remained a Human Nature consubstantial with the nature of mankind as distinct from the Divine Nature which we say is consubstantial with the Father). We 'partake of the Divine Nature' (on St Peter's terms) by consuming the divine Humanity of Christ, NOT the Divinity of Christ.
As I understand it, when I partake of Holy Communion I am partaking of the Body and Blood of the God-Man which sustains me 'unto everlasting life'. I can only separate Christ's Humanity and Divinity in thought-not in truth.
I may be out of my depth here so please go easy on me by way of explanation. Also I belong to the Orthodox Church referred to as EO on this site so there may be differences in emphasis.
In Christ