Is it wrong to kiss your fiancé on her/his lips?

edited December 1969 in Personal Issues
Hello,

Is it wrong to kiss your fiancé on her/his lips?

Is that wrong?

If its not wrong, is it wrong to french kiss them?

Its just that my friends who were engaged were VERY Christian. They used to evangelise chastity in schools, but they'd kiss each other on the lips.

As Coptic Christians, what do u think?? is that OK? or is it haram??
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Comments

  • Well, first of all we don't have haram in our church, we are not muslim. St. Paul says, "All things are lawful for me but not all things will benefit me." or something like that. secondly, it all depends on you. if this kissing is going to lead to more lustful desires than of course it is wrong. but if it is not and for sure like 1000% sure than i think it is fine. French kissing? i don't know thats kind of gross. i can't give an opinion on that because i would never want to do that. again it all depends on you. no were in the bible does it say do not kiss on the lips but it says do not commit adultry. or sexual immorallaty. so basically it all depends on the situation and your level of spirituality knowing that you can go no farther than kissing. but this is just my opinion and is not based on anything dogmatic.
  • [quote author=jydeacon link=topic=5386.msg71733#msg71733 date=1180704049]
    Well, first of all we don't have haram in our church, we are not muslim. St. Paul says, "All things are lawful for me but not all things will benefit me." or something like that. secondly, it all depends on you. if this kissing is going to lead to more lustful desires than of course it is wrong. but if it is not and for sure like 1000% sure than i think it is fine. French kissing? i don't know thats kind of gross. i can't give an opinion on that because i would never want to do that. again it all depends on you. no were in the bible does it say do not kiss on the lips but it says do not commit adultry. or sexual immorallaty. so basically i don't know. sorry for wasting your time


    Great!!

    Well... for French kissing, they never really kissed like that, (to be honest with u), but they did kiss on the lips. It was done in the open air, in a park, outside a church. There was no exchange of bodily fluids.... so it was ok.

  • I think any couple shouldn't 'married people stuff' before marriage, that is.. no kissing, holding hands, not even the 'i love you'.
    think of it this way.. if you were married.. would you go and tell some other girl you love her, hold her hand and kiss her? i think not..
    So anything you would not do outside marriage (once married) should not be done outside marriage... not just because 'it may lead to other things' [which is a bigger issue than many people give credit to] but just because that 'one-ness' should only exist within a marriage..
    if you did that kinda stuff with your fiance and it didnt work out.. you have given a part of yourself to that person and you will never get it back.. and then when you end up with a new partner you will do and say those same things.. what makes that special ?

    Yep.. so all that kinda stuff should be kept within a marriage..
  • Hi Hizz,
    You're my top poster ... always coming out with good answers, and to the point. (And no darl, u don't babble at all.)

    Again, what u say is totally correct, but the difference is this: for you getting in engaged is a period where u decide on someone? so that period could terminate at a point where u do not like the other person.

    For many of us, engagement is literally a marriage. I mean, we don't get engaged to "get to know" a girl... that was done when we were friends. Now we've decided to commit.

    I agree, sex b4 marriage is TOTALLY wrong. But holding hands is OK. I have to disagree! I can agree with u that kissing is wrong when u are engaged... that's fine.... but holding hands???

    Hizz.... !!! Now, honestly!!!
    lol






    [quote author=Hizz_chiilld link=topic=5386.msg71737#msg71737 date=1180705656]
    I think any couple shouldn't 'married people stuff' before marriage, that is.. no kissing, holding hands, not even the 'i love you'.
    think of it this way.. if you were married.. would you go and tell some other girl you love her, hold her hand and kiss her? i think not..
    So anything you would not do outside marriage (once married) should not be done outside marriage... not just because 'it may lead to other things' [which is a bigger issue than many people give credit to] but just because that 'one-ness' should only exist within a marriage..
    if you did that kinda stuff with your fiance and it didnt work out.. you have given a part of yourself to that person and you will never get it back.. and then when you end up with a new partner you will do and say those same things.. what makes that special ?

    Yep.. so all that kinda stuff should be kept within a marriage..
  • LOL well i can totally see where you're comming from, I found it hard to accept when I first heard it... but if you think about it.. the holding hands thing isnt really a ground rule.. it's what it represents.. i'm not talking about holding tetas hand to help her up the stairs.. an intimate 'holding hands' carries meaning, HEAPS of it .. but mainly, i belong to you and you belong to me.. when in reality you dont belong until you are married..

    i'm not talking about the 'get to know' type of engagements [ i totaly disagree with them, but thats another story for another time...] im talking about real forever commitments.. but the reality is, they dont always last forever..
  • [quote author=Hizz_chiilld link=topic=5386.msg71742#msg71742 date=1180706645]
    LOL well i can totally see where you're comming from, I found it hard to accept when I first heard it... but if you think about it.. the holding hands thing isnt really a ground rule.. it's what it represents.. i'm not talking about holding tetas hand to help her up the stairs.. an intimate 'holding hands' carries meaning, HEAPS of it .. but mainly, i belong to you and you belong to me.. when in reality you dont belong until you are married..

    i'm not talking about the 'get to know' type of engagements [ i totaly disagree with them, but thats another story for another time...] im talking about real forever commitments.. but the reality is, they dont always last forever..


    OK.. if we can't hold hands can we kiss then? I mean... this seems kinda boring being a christian.

    ANyway, Hizz, what do u do for fun? I mean.. do u like to go out???
    LOL
  • Basically, dont look at each other or you will go to hell.  ;)
  • I think holding hands is fine. Perhaps kissing etc is too much. But holding hands and small cuddles is ok?? no?? I mean, you're marrying a man, not a machine.
  • ok vas.. i gave you my opinion on the subject, whether you accept it is up to you.
    This sermon adresses this and related issues well, it may help.

    And as for the 'what do you do for fun' question, I've only got one thing to say.. if you think fun must involve wrong, then you're missing out!
    +God Bless
  • [quote author=Hizz_chiilld link=topic=5386.msg71951#msg71951 date=1181006235]
    ok vas.. i gave you my opinion on the subject, whether you accept it is up to you.
    This sermon adresses this and related issues well, it may help.

    And as for the 'what do you do for fun' question, I've only got one thing to say.. if you think fun must involve wrong, then you're missing out!
    +God Bless


    Good response (AGAIN!) - but no... i don't think that. I was just asking generally what do u like to do for fun???

    I mean, it seems that anything can be wrong. For example :do u like the movies (i don't that much)... do u like sport???
    WHat do u do for fun?
  • My idea of fun involves my friends and family.. i don't play much sport but i like to do pilates.. not sure if you'd call that a sport though.. umm.. I obviously like my computer, i like my mp3 player.. i like my camera.. i like swimming.. umm.. i play with my dogs... ? lol. so tell me, what do you do for fun, Vas ?
  • [quote author=Hizz_chiilld link=topic=5386.msg71996#msg71996 date=1181050585]
    My idea of fun involves my friends and family.. i don't play much sport but i like to do pilates.. not sure if you'd call that a sport though.. umm.. I obviously like my computer, i like my mp3 player.. i like my camera.. i like swimming.. umm.. i play with my dogs... ? lol. so tell me, what do you do for fun, Vas ?


    Do u like photography?? Im learning about that... Shutter priority etc.. yeah i find taking pics fun. Now i learnt about shutter priority, its cool, i can take pics of anything moving and make it look really good.

    What else? I love the tasbeha. I love singing songs of praise with my friends. With the drums (of course only in the catholic church).

    I love holding parties in my apartment. We had one this weekend. It was great. So many friends, chatting drinking... it was a nice time.

    I don't find loud music fun, or violent music. And I hate rap music with a passion. Except unless its really funny. THere are some rap music that's hilarious.

    I love sport, but i havent been in nearly 9 months to the gym...

    Voili Voilou

    So tell me what u dislike??
  • with all due respect.....this isnt MSn this is a FORUm where personal problems are discussed, if people which to pick up younger girls than do so offline.......i for one do not desire to hear what you like or dislike

    kind regards

  • [quote author=kerestina link=topic=5386.msg72005#msg72005 date=1181052839]
    with all due respect.....this isnt MSn this is a FORUm where personal problems are discussed, if people which to pick up younger girls than do so offline.......i for one do not desire to hear what you like or dislike

    kind regards



    Well, i disagree. Hizz Child has provided some excellent advice. We are discussing the idea of "having fun doesnt not require doing things that are unholy". So, I'm asking her what her idea of fun is, what she likes and what she dislikes.

    The minute I exchange a phone number/emailaddress, then u can complain.
  • how does the "discusiion of having fun" relate to the question at hand.... which is as you already know is it wrong to kiss??
  • [quote author=kerestina link=topic=5386.msg72009#msg72009 date=1181053271]
    how does the "discusiion of having fun" relate to the question at hand.... which is as you already know is it wrong to kiss??



    Kerestina, I've explained that its OK to ask what is "fun" or what is considered "fun" for someone who is a practicing Christian.

    Its an important topic for people to see that having fun does not entail going to nightclubs, getting drunk etc... there are other things that are fun also.

    The relevance of this to do u kisss your fiancé on her lips is evident: You don't need to kiss your fiance on her lips if we can see that there are other "fun" things 2 Christians can do together.

    What is wrong with that??
  • Dear Vassilios,

    I look forward to seeing how Kerestina responds to your teasing post.

    I suspect the answer to the question is a culturally conditioned one. In the UK there would be nothing at all wrong with it; it would be otherwise in Egypt. And as for the French - well, you know what they are like! ::)

    What really matters, in whatever culture, is that we treat others with respect; that includes our fiance(e) - and others present.

    In Christ,

    John

  • his last post clearly demonstrated that he himself had no idea how fun related to kissing and his answer was jus made up on the spot......there is a difference between fun and pleasure.....kissing is a form of pleasure or a show of affection....ice skating is fun......
    so in essence no one really needs to know or cares about what vas or hizz child likes or dislikes..........there is no point............THE END.............
  • Vas has demonstrated how it does relate, although i admit it is a little off track with the original question.. but questions lead to more questions as is evident on many other topics on this website.. we are hardly socialising but addressing some very important issues through sharing personal experience. If you want us to go back to the original question, fine.. but i can hardly see the reason..
  • plzzz tell wat important issues your are addresssing???.......

    the question was is it wrong to kiss your fiance on her'his lips?? the answer is based on ones morals and values and their cultural upbringing. although the church wouldnt encourage it there is nothing to say they disapprove of it..........

    how is kissing fun??? so i guesss u hug for fun too?? and you hold hands for fun as well..........all these forms of affection.......what one enjoys doing and their passions is different, i dont see how it relates to the question

    dont let me stop you from continuing your excellent discussion please continue but the follow up questions from the initail question are irrelevant and useless.....in my opinion anyway
  • [quote author=Hizz_chiilld link=topic=5386.msg72040#msg72040 date=1181112457]
    Vas has demonstrated how it does relate, although i admit it is a little off track with the original question.. but questions lead to more questions as is evident on many other topics on this website.. we are hardly socialising but addressing some very important issues through sharing personal experience. If you want us to go back to the original question, fine.. but i can hardly see the reason..


    No, im serious.. what do u do for fun?? I mean, at a young age, we need to keep our minds occupied and entertained. I take this opportunity to examine what kinds of things do you do that are fun in the hope of seeing that one doesnt have to do immoral things to be entertained?

    Also, why did you break up with your last boyfriend? And how do you see yourself after marriage? Also, where are u heading?

    LOL

  • Please get back on the original topic or this discussion will be terminated.
  • [quote author=Maged link=topic=5386.msg72061#msg72061 date=1181140061]

    Please get back on the original topic or this discussion will be terminated.

    No.. you might as well erase this one. Hizz Child gave the answer, and I think its quite wise. Its best not to kiss your fiance until you get married.

    But having said that, Anglican , who is an orthodox member, was saying that kissing one's fiance is OK in the British Orthodox Culture? That spiritually, its not wrong??
    That's the only point i'd like to find out.

    Again, it seems then that this is a cultural issue, not spiritual???

    What do u think?
  • [coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]

    I would have to agree with John.  I think it is more of a cultural issue than a spiritual one. 
  • [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=5386.msg72064#msg72064 date=1181141223]
    [coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]

    I would have to agree with John.  I think it is more of a cultural issue than a spiritual one. 


    Knfoc,
    Nice to hear from u (long time!),

    This is so interesting as HizzChild gave "christian" arguments as to why this is wrong. Yet, both you and John feel that its "OK" . THis is great. Why so??  I mentioned kissing on the lips, not cheeks (i'd like to remind u?!)

    Is it because she's your fiance that this is allowed??

    Well... i agree with HizzChild (believe it or not!) - and that's because : if u say that kissing on the lips is OK, then what else is OK?? Its seems a way of just pushing the envelope further and further...  that's the only risk.

    Having said that, are u SURE that its OK to kiss your fiance on the lips - i.e. that its not against the Church rules?
  • [coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]

    Nice to hear from u (long time!),

    I've missed you too bro.  ;D

    Anyway, I went back and read Hizz_Child's post (in all honesty I didn't read it before).  I disagree with it for the simple reason that we are not talking about kissing just any random person off the street here.  We are talking about a person's fiancé(e).  This is someone you have committed yourself too and your intentions are to marry this person.  This is not just some little fling.  Now, it's cultural, because in some cultures, kissing is a very common practice and is innocent.  It is common in France (where I know you are from) and any country that has a 'French' influence.  I have found that kissing (not on the lips, just so we are clear) is practiced in Quebec but not so much in Ontario. 

    In the case of one's fiancé(e), again, it is about respect and the culture you have grown up in.  In Egypt, clearly one cannot kiss their fiancé(e), for obvious reasons.  It is a society dominated by Islamic thought and culture, and such actions are not permitted under those circumstances.  In Europe and North America, where the culture is not as oppressively closed, kissing one's fiancé(e) (whether on the cheeks or lips) is not a major issue.  In the end though, it boils down to each individual couple, how they were raised (i.e. in what culture) and if they are comfortable enough to do such a thing.
  • [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=5386.msg72067#msg72067 date=1181142675]
    [coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]

    Nice to hear from u (long time!),

    I've missed you too bro.  ;D

    Anyway, I went back and read Hizz_Child's post (in all honesty I didn't read it before).  I disagree with it for the simple reason that we are not talking about kissing just any random person off the street here.  We are talking about a person's fiancé(e).  This is someone you have committed yourself too and your intentions are to marry this person.  This is not just some little fling.  Now, it's cultural, because in some cultures, kissing is a very common practice and is innocent.  It is common in France (where I know you are from) and any country that has a 'French' influence.  I have found that kissing (not on the lips, just so we are clear) is practiced in Quebec but not so much in Ontario. 

    In the case of one's fiancé(e), again, it is about respect and the culture you have grown up in.  In Egypt, clearly one cannot kiss their fiancé(e), for obvious reasons.  It is a society dominated by Islamic thought and culture, and such actions are not permitted under those circumstances.  In Europe and North America, where the culture is not as oppressively closed, kissing one's fiancé(e) (whether on the cheeks or lips) is not a major issue.  In the end though, it boils down to each individual couple, how they were raised (i.e. in what culture) and if they are comfortable enough to do such a thing.


    Well Monsieur,
    I cannot speak on behalf of HizzChild, but i think her line of thought was that if you kiss your fiance on the lips, or even hold hands with them, what happens if you break up???

    Now, i feel that for me, i'd only be engaged to a person whom i was 100% sure. And actually, there is a point in HizzChild's argument that doesnt make total sense.

    She also says that she agreed with me with respect to getting engaged: To her (and me) it is and NOT should be a period of getting to know - u can do that before as friends. Being engaged is just to prepare for marriage. i.e. "Im engaging her, until we get married - until we can save up enough for our marriage, etc". But we both disagree with the idea of "im only engaged to him, so its the period of "getting to know him/her"..

    If she agrees with me on this point, i.e. that getting engaged is when u are 100% sure of the person, then why does she mention that if u kiss him on the lips, what happens when u break up???

    Why would she be even thinking of breaking up!?
  • Dear Vassilios,

    I am in agreement with Κηφᾶς.

    The very question, what happens if you break up is, again, culturally conditioned. In the west in most quarters the answer is 'so what?' In Egypt and other cultures of the east, this would be a matter of grave import.

    It is best, always, to treat one's beloved with respect. Certainly when I was a young man I remember being told off by my aunt for holding hands with my fiancee in public - and that was a month before our wedding. If I were to do that to my step-daughters they'd think I had lost it - so much has changed in the past 30 years.

    In Christ,

    John
  • tempting world we live in
  • A lot of times engagements fail, and it can happen several times to one person.  So as you guys already said, it's like sharing something that's actually sanctified with just a random body of potential spouses, rather than one actual spouse.  Although it is a common mistake that I'm sure is no deadly sin or anything (essentially because ALL couples think it's meant to be, lol); but it may be just better to avoid.
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