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How could an ANGEL fall?
From what i understand, they still have free will even till now....
This topic will probably go in loops... it's quite hard understand....but if you do find out anything else, let me (us) know!
Take care and God bless
This is a repost from various responses I had given to this topic beforehand. I hope it will prove to be of some benefit.
To ascertain the possibility of Satan's fall, one must link the fall to the origin of sin itself. Thus, the real question at hand is; how and where did evil derive itself from? Furthermore, how did evil infiltrate (or more acuratley, emenate from) the heart of the greatest of God's creations; Lucifer?"
Evil was originated from the
inability to control one's power
. Although God offered Himself as a means of support,
Lucifer refuted God's hand
. He refuted that support; it was a decision made on the basis of his own free will. It then followed that
his own power consumed him
and caused him to revolt against God. This is where sin is derived from.
God created the angels to be glorious in power, but not perferct
. If that "glorious" creation chooses to be autonomous from God, it begins to lose control and disobey God's will.
The moment any creation chooses to be isolated from God, it opens the pathway for sin to enter
A second repost
I would like to point to two Biblical verses to verify my theory of the origin of evil. It has been said that evil came about from "the absence of good". That is to say without God's goodness plumeting the hearts and minds of His creations, there is nothing left but a void. Yet, the void of the soul must be filled, for it is in our nature to desire such fulfillment.
As Satan refuted God's goodness, he sought to replenish his soul by his own strength.
As a result, he replenished himself with fallible desires and ungodly wishes. One of those desires was to revolt against the Most High.
It is essential to focus on the microcosms of the issue at hand. Taking this belief a step further, I would like to suggest that the lack of God's presence displaced any hope of
in the Dark Angel's spirit.
The moment Lucifer repudiated God's glory and support, he lost control of his power
. Therefore, Lucifer's own power consumed him-- in a desire to control that power without God it ultimately overtook him instead and possessed his heart. Fully corrupted by the frustration to unsuccessfully satisfy his own desires, he grew envious and ultimately, revolted against the Most High.
Here stands my empirical reasoning for this argument;
[shadow=gold,left]1.)[/shadow] The spiritual Fathers will say that human nature intrinsically desires the fulfillment of transcendence. Every individual, at one point or another, searches for a high transcendency that pervades the whimsical desires of the heart. It is not surprising that the majority of the world searches for a “god” of, some sort or another, to fulfill their lives. Without God, the human spirit feels voidfull and discontent; it never becomes satisfied. Thus, the spirit becomes a slave to the corruption of the heart and in bondage to sin. For without the Spirit of Christ, love becomes whimsical, lasting only for moments at a time and restrained to our existence on earth.
The angels, also the creation of God, are in need of Christ’s eternal love
. They sing "Holy, Holy, Holy”, because of the great Love and beneficence of Our Lord. Without God's benevolent Nature, the angels can not have love and ultimately lose control of themselves inheriting a false perspective of their own glory. I do not believe that if Lucifer and his angels knew they were inevitably going to fall against God’s great power that they would have chosen to battle against the Arch Angel Michael and the heavenly hosts.
Satan must have earnestly believed that he could defeat God and overtake His throne. It was an erroneous perspective brought about by the lack of humility and love
Thus in 1 Corinthians 8:1 it states; "
Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies
". We ourselves our warned that in "being puffed up with pride” we may "fall into the same condemnation as the devil". (Timothy 3:6) Notice that in both verses the same refrence of being "puffed up" is used.
There was simply no "edification" for Lucifer to adopt a logical vantage point from--he therefore became puffed up with his own power. He deceived, first off all creations, himself.
Now refer to John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it."
The last sentence talks of the false tongue that encompasses the Evil One. Note, that Satan is said to "speak from his own resources". Saint John is actually implying that the lying tongue; the desire to deceive is originated from Lucifer himself.
Therefore, his evil was not "created" but was the consequential result of not "standing in the truth". The moment the arch angel left God's truth, was the moment his perspective of existence became distorted and his words became mangled from the truth.
Without truth, there was nothing left to speak except lies ..., for by God's decree, (And his affirmation of such decree through Jesus Christ's "let your 'yes' be 'yes' and your 'no', 'no'") there can only be the side of truth or the side of deception. There is no “in between”.
Lucifer's power was not corroborated by truth and, therefore, his own power deceived his own nature.
In turning to
, the prophet describes definitively the mind of Satan during his corruption;
“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
For you have said in your heart:
‘ I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’ "
This biblical reference is extremely elaborative and precise in terms of its definitive stance in accounting for the fall of Lucifer. Immediately, after the first three lines, the concept of the "heart" is re-affirmed as a faculty of the angelic host; "For you have said in your own heart".
Please notice the audacity to which Lucifer attributes hierarchies of glory to himself through a gradual process.
These levels of power begin at a reasonably high insistence, with the start of needing to "ascend into heaven". The arch angel then further takes it upon himself to ascend into a throne "above the stars of God". Then, not only does Lucifer strive to dominate Heaven per say, but further seeks to re-establish a new throne for him in the heavenly domain.
Yet, his being does not become satisfied. The process of self-gratification proceeds to procure even greater glory as he addresses his next desire for "the mount of the congregation".
The angel's desire is not only to dominate Heaven and to rule Heaven by his throne, but now to furthermore dominate the congregations of heaven--all the creations of God. The angel has decided to plunder the entire kingdom, throne, and all of creation from God.
Nevertheless, even then, he is not content. His heart can not contend with all of the glory he has pre-determined as his own because the angel holds no self control. He insinuates that he must next "ascend above the clouds"--a depiction of a greater power to which he might reach beyond the heavens; beyond God's universe.
The arch angel is, thus, indirectly allotting himself power to create dimensions and universes beyond those God has already created. His desire is to travel beyond the heavens of God by creating new heavens. Finally, even such a desire will not appease his heart. Lucifer strives for the highest form of glory imaginable; to be "like the Most High", Himself. The desire attacks the very culmination of glory and power--it is the desire to become a god, yourself.
It is this culminating and
desire to attain greater and greater glory that has led me to theorize Satan's fall as being due to his lack of self-control.
His own decision to avoid God's hand; to leave the truth; deceived him, distorted his perspective, and ultimately led to the cataclysmic domination of his superficial power over his heart. This, in my perspective, is the origin of evil.
God bless you.
The question phrased by a poster, a while ago, sounded like this; Did angels sin in the past and if so, could they sin in the present as well?
This is once again, a repost of the response I gave.
[shadow=silver,left] (Note, however, this response is directed to whether or not angels can presentally fall into perdition. Regardless of whether an angel has or does not have free will, he is incapable of sinning again.
When we reach the Heavenly domain we too will have free will, yet because of God's presence, sin will be inconcievable and altogether purged.
I sincerely apologize if any of this post's faculties are a repition of any other poster's response thus far:
[glow=blue,2,300]---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/glow] There is a two-fold argument; the fallacy of angels as well as in the present incorruptibility of angels. The Holy Scriptures in accordance to it's many truths require deep searching for hidden treasures of life. For "
to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and[a] of Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge
." (Coll 2) I hope this search will adequatley prove to be beneficial.
Here is the first section of the two-fold argument; the error of angels in the past
*[shadow=gold,left]Please refer to Job 4:18:[/shadow]
If God places no trust in his servants, if he charges his angels with error
We are told of angels charged with error; angels by, definition, are never perfect to begin with
. They are created, although, "to be greater then us", never perfect. For then they would univiscally be like God Himself, Who alone is perfect. One clue is given by Job
*[shadow=gold,left]To corroborate this point refer to
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father
Here there is a specific hierarchy of divinity and authority God has placed upon his servants.
We start with the highest culmination being the Most High Himself-- the only true servant; Our Lord Jesus--, then we are taken lower to the authority of the angels, and then even lower to the level of man
. Thus, the angels are distinct form our nature, but also far from the nature of God.
*[shadow=gold,left]Our third clue resides in 1 Cor 6:2:[/shadow]
Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels
A compelling scenario is presented. We are told that the saints will both judge "the world"; the earthly man as well as the "angels"; a group made distinct from the category of man. Yet
if the saints, who by nature are "a little lower then the Heavenly beings" (psalm 8:5) are to judge those higher by nature, then these "angels" to be judged must be condemned by God--the provider of all saintliness
. Here, we find a clear depiction of angels who are to be judged in the same manner as men.
*[shadow=gold,left]As we turn to 2 Peter 2:4 we are told:[/shadow]
"For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment
Notice, that there is a "casting down to hell" and a "reservation for darkness". It is the same process that encompasses the evil doer on earth. You may recall many references to men "being cast into utter darkness" throughout the scriptures. A fourth clue is explicated. The angels were at one time in a state where they were not in darkness.
Thus, their domain was one where they could have chosen to remain in or obstain from God's glory. Some chose Truth, while others chose the fruits of disobedience
. Like men, they were given a time of testing; a testing that must have been if angels were indeed "delivered.... into chains of darkness".
*[shadow=gold,left]This further corroborated in Jude 1:6:[/shadow]
And the angels who did not keep their proper domain,
but left their own abode
, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day
Here is the second part of the two-fold induction; angels are presently incorruptible;
*[shadow=gold,left]Begin with 1 Timothy 5:21: [/shadow]
I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that you observe these
Like there are an "elect of men" there are also an elect of angels. However, their elect is defined in the present tense. The number of these angels, who are the "elect", has already been completed. This is not so for the "elect" number yet to be completed for men. (Refer to Rev 6) Thus, we are charged before God and the "elect angels".
If their number was still not complete; their time of testing not complete; then how could we be charged by them
? Why are they placed in the same category as the Son, and the Father?
*[shadow=gold,left]Also refer to Psalm 91:11: [/shadow]
For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways
Note that the angels are "commanded".
There is no mention of their decision to willingly follow or disobey God’s command
. The angelic hosts are given a command and are compelled to follow it. I believe their state is so immersed in God’s glory that any thought of doing otherwise is unthinkable. Likewise, when
are able to directly view God’s glory for what it truly is, the thought of disobedience will seem utterly inconceivable.
*[shadow=gold,left]Finally refer to Luke 20:35: [/shadow]
But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection
Our Lord explains to the teachers of the law that men who are resurrected with Christ in glory are “like the angels”. There is no thought of sensuality, corruption or defecation of any form. The angelic hosts concern themselves solely with the spirtual glorifiaction of Christ and not at all the glorification of themsleves....as Lucifer had done..
Now, if we are to attain the status of angels when reach the incorruptible realms of Heaven, then we must assume that angels are not capable of corrupting the Heeavenly domain
For as it talks of the Heavenly Jerusalem in Revelation 21:27 it states; “
But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life
Therefore, if angels were capable of corruption, they would by no means be able to enter the “new Jerusalem”. Yet,
even they must have been written in the book of life, for only those “written in the Lamb’s Book of Life” will enter God’s Heavenly Kingdom
. Thus, the angels although now eternally pure, were once tested in a similar manner to our present test.