request from warrior.... big bang theory and theories about life

edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
wat do u think about evolvin from apes... the big bang theory? the butterfly effect... how about any other ideas about how life came? What extent do u believe in evolution... i think that animals and humans adapt to environment thus evolving but they dont turn into completly new animals (monky > human) wat is every1s thots???? this topic promises to be interestin.......


  • In my oponion, evoution does exist in small organisms and organisms other than humans. The sciefentic research does show that those organims change, but there is no proof that we evolve from those animals (yes there is embryonic proof, but other than that there isn't), and plus we can't evolve from animals, because God created animals on their own and humans on their own.
  • Ok here is my 2 cents.

    Darwins disscusion of evolution revolved around habitation not organism diversity and what not. so fantical darwinists have the wrong idea. as such i belive in evolution after creation.
  • If you have a chance, you should listen to this...

    Science Creation Bangs and Booms.

    It was a bible study Abouna Athanasius Iskander's really good!
  • see here is where there is a problem. School and religion. My school teaches everything and how people evolved EVERYTHING... n i dont believe it. however im always outnumbered about 7 asians... 4 indians... and the rest are jewish kids to 1 Coptic Orthodox kid and they always kick my butt in any debate.... where do u draw the line in what to teach in scool?
  • im doing this topic at scool
    an al i wana say is that its just a theory- it hasnt bin provin so scientists should stop makin themselves sound smart lol- they cant prove it- so jus let em give up ;)
  • all im sayin is that they MAY be right to a certain extent, it is not against our faith (apart from the apes bit) many of us now understand the idea that the 'day' wasnt a 24 hour period simply because there was no sun until the 4th 'day' which could've been the millions of years in which an 'evolution could've taken place.
  • H.H. Was asked that question last week and i like his answer(s). These are not direct qoutes but I am paraphrasing:
    The queston went, "what does your Holiness thing about the evolution theory? and how do we answer people about it?" He goes:
    1) ITs a THEORY not a FACT so no proof
    2) Its funny how scintiest would rather be evolving from animals than the creation of God
    3) In science, if something is true, then it can be duplicated under certain conditions. So, If it happend before, we can duplicate the conditions in a lab and it should happen again, but that never occured. (like get an ape and see if after so many years he/she starts showing signs of evolution in a controled environment)
    4) We can hold things with our hands due to the fact that we have an opposable thumb. We can't do the same with our feet because we have five toes on the same axis. Apes on the other hand can use either hands or feet to grab on things. If you ask me, I think that it should be the other way around that humans should evolve into apes and have these kinds of features.
    5) If after all that they are not convienced, then fine, lets say for argument's sake that we did evolve from apes (which didn't happen) who created the apes? so we are still a creation of God.

    i kinda liked his response. Thought I would share
  • Thanks for sharing that Coptic boy.That was some good"stuff".

    1) ITs a THEORY not a FACT so no proof

    Thats exactly right! Yet modern scientists and many teachers act as if Evolution is an irrefutable fact...this is not so.

    ) Its funny how scintiest would rather be evolving from animals than the creation of God

    The main reason they dont want to be a creation of God is that they want to live an immoral life free from the restraints a Holy,Omnipotent God may impose on their want to be free but in reality they are SIN.Only in our God Christ Jesus do we find true freedom and fullfillment.Amen!
  • it's funny...

    so many scientists say that evolution is the "inreffutable creation of humans"...they also say the same about the big bang theory.

    As someone mentioned in this thread (i'm sorry, i can't remember ur name), there IS embryonic evidence that humans are similar to apes, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Did u noe that a chicken embryo and a human embryo look exactly identical at one point in the embryo's existence? So if scientists act on that, they're gonna suggest that humans come from chickens???

    and btw, can some one explain to me the general idea of what the butterfly effect is? i've heard of it so many times, yet i haven't understood it for quite a while.

    Sinful Servant
  • Hi Everyone,

    I found this website one day. its basics is christian, but watch out for some of its arguements. it gives some answers from the bible and at the same time from the science prespective.
  • butterfly effect hm, let's see, wasnt that something with black and white butterfly's and white and black trees.

    ok, cause of industry, white trees become black from the smoke. So the white butterfly's who could hide well at first in the white trees, now arent camouflaged all of a sudden. Meaning that white butterfly's have a smaller change of surviving. The exact opposite happens to the black butterfly's.
    Conclusion; survival of the fittest. (best one adopted to environment etc)
  • oh ok...i remember now...we studied this in biology earlier in the year...


    Sinful Servant
  • i keep forgetting stuff like that over and over too lol, but i have a final about biology next week so i had to study it again, prayers pplzz ;D
  • yes me biology final is coming pray for me, please...

    Rabena Ma3ak ya Hos Erof...

    Sinful Servant
  • well, the REAL challenge to Orthodox Christianity is not so much Cosmology (dealing with big bangs and what-not), but the OTHER branch of physics: Quantum Mechanics.

    Basically every particle in the universe is both a wave and a particle. When you measure it's momentum (velocity times mass), it's by definition a wave. When you measure it's position in space, it suddenly becomes a particle....all rather strange stuff.

    But the weird thing is (I won't go into gets a little bit too technical and academic) that it never really HAS a position in space until it is measured by a scientist in a laboratory. According to what is called the "Copenhagen Interpretation", all particles exist in a "probability wave" which theoretically extends over the whole space/time continuum. And, according to this interpretation, nothing really exists AT ALL, until it is measured by a scientist in a other words, they only exist in the mind.

    Now many New-Age tinged scientists like Niels Bohr and David Bohm, have been a little far-fetched in applying this (as yet-unproven interpretation) to ALL OF EXISTENCE. In fact, many sociologists and historians have failed to take into account how the Quantum Revolution has helped to formulate the Post-modernist/pluralist/relativist Revolution of's had a BIG role. Basically, their conclusion is that quantum physics proves that there is no such thing as absolute truth.


    I really don't think the Big Bang Theory contradicts creationism. The Church has never taught that the Genesis account must be taken literally. In fact, even Blessed Augustine didn't take it literally (although he argued in the opposite direction: that God really created everything in one day). Actually, the first proponents of the Big Bang theory were theists (i.e. they believed in God). In fact, the people who first took offence at the Big Bang Theory were atheists!

    I also don't see any contradiction between evolution and creationism (which is why I hate the Darwin fish that morons put on the back of their cars). The problem with Darwinian Evolution is purely scientific: they still have not properly accounted for the problems of "irreducible complexity" that Michael Behe has put forth.

    by the way, a side note, Michael Behe does NOT hold to theism or creationism, as many of his attackers have assumed.
  • I also don't see any contradiction between evolution and creationism

    so u think God may have let evolution evolve untill the first intelligent man (mutated ape?? lol) came, and God gave him the breath of live (spirit) or do u combine both??
  • thats wot i've been saying. evolution was a process controlled by God, perhaps without the ape bit coz it specifically says 'God created man in his image' so that was just a different species created later on. it explains very logically dinosaurs' existence and extinction if we take a day as a 'time gap'
  • yeah i know
    actually the order of genesis is the same as in evolution if i'm not mistaking: first in the sea, then walking creatures, then birds, then man (primates). The only scientific problem would be "man"
  • as far as i know, theres supposed to be some missing link, like, some half ape half human type thing. what puzzles me scientifically is, if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes??! and His Grace Anba Shenouda's response about the use of hands and feet is also logical!
  • ok lissen... i honestly dont wanna be crude or disgusting but if we r sooo closly genetically related y cant monkeys and humans have children? Again im SOOO sorry for bein so gruesome
  • i think like everyone else that evelotion is false , one of the main reasons other than the bible is that there are to many missing links which make much people doubt that evelotion even happened !!!!!! this is a scientific way that you can get to it , even with alll the technology of today and all the things they explore and the computerss and the labs and the millions of dollars put into this NONE have been found since darwins death !
  • i just wanted to make a point : If in Genesis it says that we we created in the image of God, how then can we descend from apes?? Think about it, lol.

  • i think there was such thing such as evolution.
    like the bones of the the australio pikathus, homo habilies, neandrathals. that were found

    but the fact that we evolved from them is false, theyre just diff species that got extinct. Like a gorilla and a human, theyre two diff species.

    But i think the church does agree with evolution b/c if u notice something in Genesis in the very first chapter, it says firstthe water creatures were made, then he made the normal animals. Thats exactly like what evolution states. The first organisms were from the water then they evolved into flying creatures, then finally evolved into land animals.

    There's always benn this "war" between Religion and Science, but most of their arguments are linked together.

    Also most of the greatest scientists (Isaac Newton, Eienstine) stated somewhere in their book something related to that a God exists in their books.

    John Dalton himself wrote in the last page of his book on evolution "that all this would have never existed if there were no greater Being" aka GOD (this is not word by word what he said but it's something to that affect).

    Heres a qoute i heard from a Servent who works for NASA/JPL :

    "Scientists are always climbing the mountain of knowlege, figuring out more and more truth; but when they finally reach the top of the mountain they will find a group of theologians waiting for them."

  • Religion (especially the Coptic faith) doesn't necessarily "hate" science, but think that they are taking on a role in life they can never accomplish: that is, proving religion wrong.

    The Coptic Orthodox church believes that sciences and religion can co-operate together, HOWEVER sciences is always a smaller factor than faith. No matter what the scientific proof contradicts in faith, faith is always a more important factor due to the fact that religious views have existed and have irrefutable evidence that they exist already...

    Hope that made sense...
    Sinful Servant
  • Science proves Religion, that's the beauty of any debate revolving around that type of subject!
  • Concerning evolution, I'm pretty sure (but I don't know if they consider this evolution,) that species adapt through mutations. Not exactly sure though. Either way though, I think people, i.e. scientists, are just trying to prove religion wrong which like was mentioned before is futile and it is true that our Church encourages science but we dont depend on it; i.e. like the School of Alexandria. Personally, I value my soul and where it originates and where it will return much more than my body which will to return to the dirt from which it was made.
  • there is no evidence to support macro evolution the only actual evidence of evolution is on the micro-organinsmic level.
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