another question ;)

edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
ok my question is why does abouna put his hand on the rim of the cup at turn his hand around it clockwise?'

also why does abouna let the deacons smell the blood , is it to see if there is alcohol or sumthin ?
cuz the always say its ok anyway......

and last question y does abouna wear black ....

that's all for now i might ask sum more



  • [quote author=beshoyrm link=board=1;threadid=1164;start=0#msg19643 date=1107280853]
    why does abouna let the deacons smell the blood , is it to see if there is alcohol or sumthin ?
    cuz the always say its ok anyway......

    Ok Beshoy, the reason the priest gives the wine for the deacons to smell is simple. You have to remember that we are offering these gifts to God, so they must be good gifts. The reason why abouna smells it is to check if it is good wine and not old, he then gives it to the deacon as a second check, you can say. The priest needs to make sure that the gifts being offered are gifts worthy of being offered.

    When Abouna does this, you dont just say:
    [quote author=beshoyrm link=board=1;threadid=1164;start=0#msg19643 date=1107280853]its ok anyway......
    you respond by saying "It is good and precious". Keep in mind you do not just say it for the sake of saying it, if there is something wrong with the wine, you should say it and not keep silent.

    Anyways, Sorry I didn't want to answer the other two questions because I didnt want to give you a wrong answer, but I can look into it for you.

    Please remember me in your prayers
  • question 1 and 2:

    Then he, the associate priest, and the deacon who is to hold the decanter, smell the wine to make sure that it is pure and not vinegary and is NOT distilled wine.

    Moving the chalice from West to East symbolises that we, who were once alienated from God and living in darkness, (the west symbolising alienation from God), have been transformed to the light and to the grace of God through the Bloodshed and death of Christ on the cross,

    "But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been made near by the Blood of Christ" (Eph.2:13). Moving it from the left to the right signifies that we were once rejected and separated from God but through the precious blood of Christ shed on the cross we have been moved to the right hand of the Father to be with our beloved Saviour and Good Shepherd Jesus Christ.

    Moving the chalice in the shape of the Cross indicates that Christ shed his Blood on the Cross for the Salvation of all mankind;

    "And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world" (1John 2:2).

    by HG Bishop Mettaous, see also:
  • and last question y does abouna wear black ....

    In the book Youth Concerns Q & A by H.G. Bishop Moussa

    The black clothes symbolize three things. Three types of people wear black: lawyers, judges, and some professors. Thus the priest wears black because he is a lawyer who defends us before God, he is a judge who hears our confessions and gives us the absolution, and he is a professor who teaches us about Chrsitianity
  • im not sure about this, but in reference to ur last question, i heard that the priest wears black because he wants to be 'dead' to the world, and is saddened by his sins. and as we know, sins cause us to be 'black', so he is constantly reminded of his sins so that he can work on them.
    he wears black because it shows humility and, in a way, not caring about his clothing in terms of looks.

    anyone plz feel free to correct me, because i'm not exactly sure if what i said was right or not.

    take care and God bless
  • [quote author=CrazyCopt link=board=1;threadid=1164;start=0#msg19657 date=1107290104]
    im not sure about this, but in reference to ur last question, i heard that the priest wears black because he wants to be 'dead' to the world

    I thought monks wear black cuz they're dead to world I didn't hear that in regards to the priest (beshoyrm you are referring to a married priest .. rite) since he is serving those in the world .. but i may wrong.
  • [quote author=beshoyrm link=board=1;threadid=1164;start=0#msg19643 date=1107280853]
    ok my question is why does abouna put his hand on the rim of the cup at turn his hand around it clockwise?'

    First of all, he turns it counter-clockwise (not sure why) and he puts his hand around the chalice and moves it counter-clockwise without taking it off, just in one movement. He does this to symbolize unity and eternity.

  • (beshoyrm you are referring to a married priest .. rite)

    yes i am peter im talkin bout
    married preist , but i would like 2 no if there is a diffrent other than the reasons for priest a reason monks were black , thx for all ur answers so ffar if any1 like 2 add a fact the would be cool
    also avvaatoni (sry if i miss spelled) about dont just say its ok part i all the deacons at my church say its ok and they cant even smell it cuz its sooooooo far away from there noses like really far that u cant smell it thats y i said the usually say yes anyway

    thx for all ur posts gbu plz add more if u would like to add anything ;)

  • ok i'm sorry i don't have an answer.. but i have a question.. ok sense u guys r talking abt like the litergy and stuff i just thought maybe i cud ask u my question.. i heard from an abouna that at sum point in the litergy abouna stops talking to the ppl and starts talking to the like souls of the dead ppl.. i kno it sounds wierd but when he says.. "erfa3o kolobakom" and the congregation says.. "heya 3end el rab" is he talking to us or the souls?? i kno i don't make any sense but like i dunno it in english coz abouna always says it in arabic.. so can sumone help me??

  • wooooow r u saying abouna talks 2 souls wooooooooooooooooow i didn't kno that im gonna like do sum research that weird but cool n kinda creepy :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
  • LOL........... WOW ur like i dunno wut to say but like i heard that from an abouna.. so i'm still not sure.. but i'd love if u do search it.. thnx :-*
  • Rina,
    Abouna doesn't talk to no souls, that is funny though. However, in most cases before the institute (when he tells the story of how Jesus instituted the Holy communion for us; the narritive) he is usually talking to God "You have not abondonded us to the end, but have alwayws visitied us with Your salvation and in the last days You decended.....)
    Also, after the transformation (The part where he says "and this bread He makes into His Holy Body" and we responed "we believe") The priest is now talking to God (The litnays and prayers;ex: Bless O Lord the congregation, etc...) At that point abouna doesn't talk to us, but rather to God (commoration of the saints; "as this O Lord is the commandment of Your only..." "those O Lord whose Souls you have taken" "Lead us into your kingdom" and so on) But abouna Doesn't communicate with the souls of the departed or nothing.
  • "erfa3oo kolobakom" means lift up your hearts (not souls)..
    "heya 3end ilrab" meaning that our hearts are with the Lord....I think it just talks about how we should praise God not just with our lips but with our hearts as well, "Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near ,Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me" Isaiah 29:13...i dont think abouna is talking to souls,.....
  • Hey guys,
    since we are talking about the liturgy..I have a question.. when we put a paper on the altar .. does abouna read it .. or does it just stay there and the prayer is automatically lifted ??? ??? sorry kinda slow
    and um .. also .. In the "Magma3" I heard that everyname abouna says of a saint .. the saint actually passes infront of the altar at that time .. is that reaaaaaaaaaallly true?
  • OstazaCoptic yeah i agree with u too i was wondering about el "Magma3" too. ??????
  • o wow thnx alot guys... loff u lotz.. and i think abouna does read it.. but if its sumone that had passed away he reads it outloud.. so ya.. thats all i kno.. lol... but thnx again.. :-* :-* :-*
  • Hey my sister's name is Rina too ;D
  • well my real name is Marina.. my nickname is Rina... lol... :-*.. but still same thing.. i love my nickname so i love ur sisters name too :-* :-*
  • hay guys i would lik 2 ask a question also. if abouna is dead 2 the world then how come he still sins cuse if u r out of this world u cannot sin cuse the worlds where sin belongs and if he is dead 2 the world then how dose he sin some 1 please anwser me

    thank u

    andrew 64
  • I think only monks & nuns are "dead to the world" thats why they pray on them the prayer of the dead when they become monks/nuns.

    We all live in the world..and the world is full of sin, people that love God so much and want to devote all their lives to Him, become monks or nuns, but that doesnt mean that they stop sinning. Satan tempts those who are close to God a lot more than he tempts people that r already far away from God.

    So even though we live in this world, yet we are not of this world, so wherever we are whether priests, monks, nuns, servants, any christian in the world, the struggle/battle against sin never ends.
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