edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
As we heard of the indescribable, horrible, and undesirable news off the "Unfortunate News" thread, something came to mind, WHY? WHY DID YOU ALLOW THAT GOD? Why does God allow bad for the good people, not so long ago one of the close church members was killed by a drunk driver, and now God allows a whole family, which I only heard one of them, but she seemed to be very close to Christ, to die an undesirable death.... SO my Question is Why GOD, WHY? Why would God allow such evil... why would God see his children hurt, and being tortured and allow it?

Please answer me.... May the Lord speak through you to me.


  • well bishoy i remember a story in the old testament (sry it was a while ago so i've seem to have forgotten the person in the story) but any way this guy was very close to God. and God loved this person very much he gave this guy childeren ,crops,animals everything he'ld ever need. but God also wanted this guy to keep huis faith strong so God had his childeren killed ruined his crops had his farm animals sick and gave this guy a very bad desease. though all this happened to the guy he never denied his faith in God. Gods intentions are always good bishoy usually it means he wants you to be closer to him by strengthtening your faith.
  • and in the end not only did God heal him but he gave him even more
  • I believe that ur talking about the story of job, and although this is soooo sad :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(( I still cant believe it) we should be comforted to know that they are now happy in Heaven with the saints and the angels.....
  • It is the story of Job
  • I suppose God loved her so much He wantd her in heaven soon.
  • socoolbishoy, I understand how you feel. It pains me to think of people dying in agony. But I will add, sometimes we can't ever possibly understand why things happen but I think we have to trust God's infinite wisdom in any case. I mean, I guess this ultimately gets at a question that people always ask of why bad things happen to good people. But, God doesn't want evil in this world...it's people's own free will that leads them to sin and leads them to commit violence against others. I don't think we can blame God for giving people free will out of his ultimate love for mankind. Ultimately, people are responsible for their actions and while God has foreknowledge of what will happen, it's not His desire that this happens. Well, that's how I think of it anyway. Hope it made some sense.
  • I didn't know that that was magnoona4lyf. She was such a great person. Although I understand how ure feelin bisho I also know that she is much happier there. This year has been one of the hardest years to deal with. So many loved ones passing away. It hurts me to even talk about it. But we must understand that they are so much happier than we are now. Earth is only a test! We are here to pass it and live in our real home, home of the Almighty Savior, Jesus Christ. Instead of mourning for them we should be happy for them. I know it's hard, but we shouldnt ask God why, because everythin happens for a reason. God doesn't let those alcoholics and drug dealers die, because he is merciful and wants to give them a chance to find him and praise his name. But those who already know him and are his true children shouldn't have to suffer on earth, that is why he takes them where they belong. We shouldnt be saddened for anyone who is with God. Actually we should be happy and rejoice for the lost sheep have returned home. We are still lost sheep waiting for our chance to get back home. The loss of our loved ones is a sign that our lives can end any day. God wants us to be ready. That is why he is relating to us through our loved ones so we can finally open our eyes and reach for his hands.

    God be with those who knew Sylvia. Although I never really met her I was always delighted by her replys. She truly was a great person and she deserves to be with God. She got the best birthday gift this year, eternal life....
  • If you look in coptichymns.net, they have a great sermon by Abouna Anthony Messeh entitled "Why Does God Allow Suffering".

    Here's the exact link:

  • [quote author=NotOfThisWorld link=board=1;threadid=1081;start=0#msg18149 date=1105765665]
    She truly was a great person and she deserves to be with God. She got the best birthday gift this year, eternal life....

    very true...

    as for why, i have a story i'd like to share, it may be relevant or not, but still....

    a family in the country i live, they had a baby ok, a 2 months old baby, and she died, from nowhere, it just happened. The parents werre really sad of course and nobody could comfort them.
    at the time there was no church here, and a priest from outside came to serve every once in a while...so at the funeral the priest said: she is now in heaven praying that u may have finally have a coptic church, and guess what.... a couple of months after, the first church was bought and a priest came here....
    the priest was right, and it was a source of comfort for many...

    now at the moment the current tragedy may not seem to have anything good coming out of it, but i'm sure a lot of people will be affacted in a way that they will reconsile with eachother and with God, finding out that our days may end at any time...

    Romans 8:28 - And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God

    God be with their relatives and comfort their souls in the paradise of joy
  • I read this recently, I though it might be of some comfort. From the Orthodox Way by Bishop Kallistos Ware:

    At once it must be admitted that no easy answer or obvious reconcilliation is possible. Pain and evil confront us as a surd. Suffering, our own and that of others is an experience through which we have to live, not a theoretical problem we can explain away. If there is an explanation it is on a level deeper than words. Suffering cannot be "justified"; but it can be used, accepted -and, through this acceptance transfigured. "The paradox of suffering and evil", says Nicholas Berdayev, "is resolved in the experience of compassion and love."

    Christ's suffering and death have, then an objective value: he has done for us something we should be altogther incapible of doing without Him. At the same time, we should not say that Christ has suffered "instead of us", but rather that he has suffered on our behalf. The Son of God suffered 'unto death', not that we might be exempt from suffering, but that our suffering might be like His. Christ offers us, not a way round suffering, but a way through it; not substitution, but saving companionship.

    Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, so that we may be also glorified together.

    From St. Basil the Great:

    The Lord doesn't send suffering to the servants of God without a purpose. It tests the genuiness of our love for God the creator. Just as athletes win crowns struggling in the arena. Christians are perfected by the trial of their temptations if they patiently wait and gratefully accept what God sends them. Everything is ordained by the Lords love. We must not be distressed by anything that happens to us even if it affects our present weaknesses, For although we dont know why eveyrthing that happens to us is sent by God as a plessing, we should be convinced that everything that happens to us is for our good....

    God bless,

  • As far as I'm concerned, Sylvia and her family are VERY lucky.
    We should almost be envious....
    They left this cruel, tercherous world, they left suffering and pain, they left lies and deciets; they left satan's works, and have entered the Heavenly Kindgom, where we all want to be eventually.

    God wants to take His children at a time that they will be ready and at a time that they will enter enternal life. And I'm sure that's what He did to the Armanious family.
    We heard on the news and from friends/family that they were religious (and I'm sure they are), so God took them in order to insure that they'll be with Him.
    Boy, we do have a loving and caring God....

    He has His reasons for everything, and in all things we should Trust His works and thank Him for being the wonderful God that He is...

    Family of Armanious, intercede on our behalf that God have mercy on our souls and that we may eventally join you and all the heavenly multitude in praising the name or our Saviour.

    I know you're having a great time up there.... :)
  • [quote author=CrazyCopt link=board=1;threadid=1081;start=0#msg18175 date=1105807552]
    As far as I'm concerned, Sylvia and her family are VERY lucky.
    We should almost be envious....
    They left this cruel, tercherous world, they left suffering and pain, they left lies and deciets; they left satan's works, and have entered the Heavenly Kindgom, where we all want to be eventually.

    God wants to take His children at a time that they will be ready and at a time that they will enter enternal life. And I'm sure that's what He did to the Armanious family.

    Sooo true CrazyCopt :).. They are very lucky to have left a world full of sin and went on to everlasting life with our Savior. God must've seen that the world wasn't worthy enough to have them to dwell in so he took them to a place much greater. We should be very honored as the members of tasbeha.org to have had a saint in our midst who shared with us her opinions and advice... ensha allah we will all meet again in heaven.

    God Bless,
    Mariam :)
  • they are also lucky to have been taken together as a family this way none of them have to grieve the death of a mother, father, or child. God be with friends and relatives and comfort them.
  • this news is bitter to swallow but we musnt ask y
    this has ensured them a crown in heaven
    god wanted them to be honored in heaven.

    would we rather this not have happened? yes because we miss them and we want them to be with us.

    but if our eyes were pure enough to see them in heaven
    then we would be happy for them because they all have crowns and are sooo happy and they are a family, their together,
    together rejoicing in the eternal peace of god...!

  • but what really gets me is the moment they had to go through seeing their family members killed before their way... and just leaving this world in this way... there are many other ways God couldve used... that is why I am still aking... WHY GOD? WHY?
  • we are still able to learn from their lives and the examples they left behind. They are much happier in heaven than they every could be here on earth. True, the last moments of their lives much have been painful. They probably killed the children first in front of their parents, but God repose their souls and help us to learn from their lives.
  • We never know why He used this way, but believe me, there's a good reason for it.

    Perhaps He used this horrific way because He knows that their last moments together in that situation would be strengthened in Him, and they would repent and call on His name, thus the last thing they said would be His name; ensuring their eternal life.

    Maybe they were saying Psalms or singing Tasbeha because they knew what would happen. Maybe they were all praying a prayer they liked. They were aware of the outcome, thus they probably stuck to God for comfort in Him.

    Maybe if He picked a different way, such as a car accident (God forbid it happen to anyone), they would have been screaming and panicing (perhaps even cursing out of panic) and wouldnt call out to His name, and that would'nt be too good. Many things would run through their minds and God might not be the top one. (I'm just saying an example, I have no idea what would happen)

    He chose this way that seems to us to be awful because He knew it would GUARUNTEE that they all end up with Him.

    .....Which is exactly what He wanted, whether we liked His way or not.

    Their few minutes of terrible suffering is now rewarded with eternal joy.

    Pray for us Armanious family.... Hope to see you someday in Heavenly Jeruslem, where all tears and sufffering come to an end. You're quite lucky...

  • Bishoy...i know what u mean...i thought about that too but listen man, m sure God is gonna reward them for every second of pain they endured .....we dunno what happened but we know God is full of mercy and is Just..
    rest assured, they are rewarded for every moment they suffered...May God have mercy on us...

    guys one more thing..i dunt think anyone brought it up yet...bas guys this is an example of how we needta watch and pray caz we don't know the time...the hour...nuthing...guys let this be a wake up call for all of us to take our lives with Him more seriously...to love one another...to control our tempers, our thoughts...to pray for one another ..to practice true religion as St. James described it: visiting the orphans and widows, giving to the poor...storing up treasures for ourselves in heaven....and guys..lets keep us all in our prayers during this time when we're in shock..horror..
    and reflection..and may God turn this time of pain into comfort and joy when we can remember people like Abouna Pishoy Kamel who asked to die of cancer to suffer ..to quicklty enter Gods kingdom...salaam we ne3ma
  • Amba David said at their wake, it was with God's permission, but not really his will. if u know wat i mean.
  • but wuts good about it is at least they'll be in heaven
  • "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows."

    Matthew 10
  • I believe God doesn't allow anything evil, I also believe that God may allow that to open people's eyes, that it can happen to anyone and life is so short, maybe to repent..... I also think that maybe he's trying to send a message to the president and the securities that they should really end things and stop these groups from doing what it's doing to us, even in the most safer country of the face of the earth.

    You can't escape your future.

    hope that would help.

  • He doesn't allow evil to happen, but he does permit it...like someone said before...it's not God's will it's God's permission. Like one of Sylvia's favorite piece from the bible :'(....To everything there is a reason, a time for every purpose under heaven...God wanted them at this time to be with them...
    God Repose their souls, and Bless us...and find those who did it
    God Bless,

  • The Lord doesnt allow anything bad to happen to any of his children... just remember that this isnt our permanent home. everyone is gonna eventually pass away and the good will go to heaven. now each person has his/her own time when they're going to leave this world until judgement day and i guess that this was their time and even though it may seem hard to the family and friends they should kind of still be a little happy because they are now closer to the our Lord. i personally think that God has our whole life planned for us. He knows what's going to happen and what we're going to do. but He doesnt control us or the way we act. Every thing happens for a reason, whether its good or bad! everything bad that happens, God makes good out of it. Honestly, i dont know if this helped you in any way but i would like to hear what you think and if you have any more questions just let me know.

    †††God Bless†††

    P.S. Never question God's work, we can pray to Him to help us understand but we should never question His work.
  • hi guys
    i have been so affected by what has happened i dont know the family but i havent stopped crying since i heard the news. today i was listening to some hymns and i heard a song which said 'la takhaf'( dont be afraid) and i started balling my eyes, how can God tell us not to be afraid when he lets this happen? i know u say they have gone to heaven but what father wants to see his children in pain? what Father wants his children who preach his word, who follow him,who praise him be raped then have their throats cut by muslims. guys im sorry i know this way of thinking is wrong but u dnt know how much pain this brings to me. if following God and being close to the church brings so much hurt then why shouldnt we just live like the others and not hav pain, or be murdered or raped. why why would God allow such a horrible thing to happen? u cant tell me there was absoulutley no other way on this earth that God would have let the family go to heaven except some muslims coming and doing what they did. whwre is Gods love in the picture? where is his protectio? where is his mercy or compassion?? thanx guys iknow this is really long...
  • ok i know that im nothing but sinful and unworthy but what u guys said b4 in this thread and on the other threads really meant something to me and i really appreciate it. although it will still take me a big while or forever to get over what happened, but i have to say that the words of comfort that i got from u guys and the ppl at my church meant alot
    but to answer u bushy
    first of all
    THEY WERENT RAPED, no one said anything about that and it really hurts me everytime i hear something new about the incident
    second i wouldnt possibly hav been able to live after what happened if i wasnt near christ, what i mean is that besides all the pain that im going through i am still very thankfull that i was born into a coptic orthodox family and i have that gift, so i dont think that we would be better off like the ppl who r far away from christ, because maybe they rnt suffering here on earth but who knows what would happen in the eternal life . i hope u get what i mean
    and i was referring to ur post when u said
    "if following God and being close to the church brings so much hurt then why shouldnt we just live like the others and not hav pain,"

  • I have a few questions for you bushy...
    1) how long was the family hurt for? 20 mins... an hour!
    2) If a person dies when he/she are a way from God how much would they hurt? forever!
    3) are the armonious family in pain now? NO...
    4) are we in pain? yes.... because we miss them... but soon it will be all gone... so dont make a mistake while in the heat of your anger.

    "If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, "I am going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I."

    I see you really love them, and I do too, but if we love them, we need to rejoice, for they went to the father, who is greater than them, and all of us.
  • :)

    why why would God allow such a horrible thing to happen?

    Our ways are not Gods ways,our thoughts are not Gods thoughts.The LORD knows the beginning and ending of all things.We judge with limited human understanding,seeing only the outward circumstances,not the eternal perspective.This life is only a small drop in the vast ocean of eternity.We're here one moment then we're gone;like a foggy mist in the early morning soon vanquished by the bright,shining sun.During this brief,transitory existence here on earth,we all experience suffering,grief,tragedy at some point in our life.Thats the human condition.We all die.We all suffer.We all sorrow.Because of sin death,pain,sorrow entered the world.God became man,identified with our human suffering{"He was a man of sorrows aquainted with grief..."}was brutally tortured,mocked,scourged,
    crucified to save all mankind and to provide salvation to all who call upon His Name.God has Himself experience the worst suffering known to man.He has felt our pain.He has tasted our grief.He knows.He cares.But this present time of suffering is nothing compared to the eternal glory that is to be revealed to us.This life passes but Heaven is forever.Sylvia and her family did indeed suffer for a little while on this earth but now they experience a life so wonderous and joyeous that there are no words to describe it.They suffer no more but have entered into the fullness of Gods love.

    You ask why God would allow this terrible thing to happen to Sylvia and her family?Why did God allow His dear Son to suffer such a horrible death?Because suffering always precedes good,triump and glory.Death before Resurrection.Suffering before exaltation.From the death of this lovely family great good and righteousness will come.Many will turn to God and love Him more.God will cause what was meant for evil and turn it into something eternal,full of good and righteousness.This lovely family are blessed martryers,co-workers with the Holy Apostles and all those who died for the kingdom of Heaven.There reward is undoubtably great in Heaven;their joy complete,their reward sure and lasting.
    Their death has effected people all over the world.They have reached more people in death for their Lord than they ever could have reached in life.Here in New Mexico they have touched and moved people.They ask me about Sylvia and her family,who are the coptic christians.They are amazed that this family was so strong in its faith that they would share the Gospel of God even with the enemies of the Cross and that they would lay down their lives for the sake of their faithful Lord.They have made people realize that life is short;that we need to live our lives for Jesus Christ.

    Thank you Sylvia for making me laugh{through your instant messages} in this life.For bringing me a little joy in this life through your wise words,your comforting words,your kind words.But thank you most of all for your witness of our Lord Jesus Christ in life and death.Your life and words still speak,still move,still touch the human heart.
  • [quote author=LostEgPrincess link=board=1;threadid=1081;start=15#msg18192 date=1105828079]
    Amba David said at their wake, it was with God's permission, but not really his will. if u know wat i mean.

    You took the words right out of my mouth. God's will is never bad because he loves us, but sometimes he may allow things to happen for certain reasons beyond our comprehension. Maybe it was to get us to become closer to him, and he needed to hit us with something strong to get our attention. God works in mysterious ways.

  • Wow, that's a great way to think of it :)
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