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Words for Ajios Biadshob

CopticBoy101
edited February 2020 in Hymns Discussion
If anyone has the words (English translation or trasliteration) or even the OB Coptic text of Agioc vy`etSop (Ajios biadshob) by Fr. Shenouda Maher Ishak and Fr. Athanasius Iskander, please PM me!

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  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    edited February 2020

    So, I haven't seen an actual Coptic text for it, but i only have the transliterated coptic text in Abouna Shenouda OB, and english and arabic translation. In this case, i know why the transliteration more important that the coptic text since the main goal is probably to spread OB...while also deal with the complications of translating the current existing O Kirios Meta so. 

    ājios biyadšob:biyanāfšob ūwoh batnaw: biyatman awol:
    biānār(k)hos bišā-anah: ditriyas atūwab nāy nān.

    ājios biyadšob:ebnūdi fyot: bibāndokrātor: biyadāftāmyo nhob
    niwan: ditriyas atūwab nāy nān.

    ājios biyadšob: ebnūdi bširi: isos bimāyromi: adāfšisāreks
    āfsodi emmon: ditriyas atūwab nāy nān.

    ājios biyadšob: bibnawma tūwab: bibārāklitos: bi-ūro
    nabūrāniyon: ditriyas atūwab nāy nān.

    ājios ājios: ājios kiriyos: ebšoys sābā-ot: etba nam ebkāhi
    mah awol: (k)han bakowū nam bakdāyo.

    āksiyos āksiyos: āksiyos bāšoys isos: ja fok ba bi-āmāhi:
    nam biowū nam bismū: šā ni-anah āmin.

    ājios ota-os: ājios is-širos: ājios ātānātos: biyadāwmāsf
    (k)han dibārtanos: alayson imas.

    ājios ota-os:ājios is-širos:ājios ātānātos:biyadāwāšf
    abistāwros: alayson imas.

    ājios ota-os: ājios is-širos: ājios ātānātos: biyadāfdonf
    (k)han bitāfos: alayson imas.


    Holy is the Existent / who was and who is to come, / the
    Ever-present, / the Everlasting, / the Eternal. / O Holy Trinity have mercy on
    us.

    قدوس الكائن، الذي كان والذي يأتي، الدائم، الأزلي،
    الأبدي، أيها الثالوث المقدس ارحمنا.

     

    Holy is the Existent, / God the Father, / the Pantocrator, /
    who created everything. / O Holy Trinity have mercy on us.

    قدوس الكائن، الله الآب، ضابط الكل، الذي خلق
    كل شيء، أيها الثالوث المقدس ارحمنا    .


    Holy is the Existent, / God the Son, / Jesus, the Lover of
    Mankind, / who took flesh and saved us. / O Holy Trinity have mercy on us.

    قدوس الكائن، الله الابن، يسوع محب البشر، الذي
    تجسد وفدانا، أيها الثالوث المقدس ارحمنا    .

     

    Holy is the Existent, / the Holy Spirit, / the Comforter, / the
    heavenly King. / O Holy Trinity have mercy on us.

    قدوس الكائن، الروح القدس، المعزى، المَلِك
    السمائي، أيها الثالوث المقدس ارحمنا    .


    Holy, holy, / holy, O Lord, / the Lord of hosts, / heaven
    and earth are full / of Your glory and honor.

    قدوس قدوس، قدوس أيها السيد، رب الجنود، السماء
    والأرض مملوءتان من مجدك وكرامتك    .

     

    Worthy, worthy, / worthy, O Lord Jesus / for Yours is the
    majesty, / the glory, and the blessing / forever, amen.

    مستحق مستحق، مستحق يا ربي يسوع، لأن لك العزة،
    والمجد والبركة، إلى الآبد آمين    .

     

    Holy God. / Holy Mighty. / Holy Immortal. / O who was born
    of the Virgin / have mercy on us.

    قدوس الله، قدوس القوى، قدوس الذي لا يموت، يا
    مَن وُلد مِن العذراء، ارحمنا    .

     

    Holy God. / Holy Mighty. / Holy Immortal. / O who was
    crucified on the Cross / have mercy on us.

    قدوس الله، قدوس القوى، قدوس الذي لا يموت، يا
    مَن صُلب على الصليب، ارحمنا    .

     

    Holy God. / Holy Mighty. / Holy Immortal. / O who rose from
    the tomb / have mercy on us.

    قدوس الله، قدوس القوى، قدوس الذي لا يموت، يا
    مَن قام من القبر، ارحمنا    .

  • CopticBoy101
    @minatasgeel
    Thank you!! ❤️
  • Daniel_Kyrillos
    I'm not familiar with this, what is it?
    Oujai qen `p{oic
  • ophadeceophadece
    @Daniel_Kyrillos
    This is Fr Shenouda Maher's version of ⲁⲅⲓⲟⲥ ⲓⲥⲧⲏⲛ, I believe I came across it a while ago but I can't remember how it goes in terms of the tune..
    Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
  • CopticBoy101
    @ophadece
    It is the same tune as Agioc ictin
  • ophadeceophadece
    Thanks @CopticBoy101
    Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
  • mabsootamabsoota
    hmm, maybe we could just sing it in english instead of trying to recreate or correct the original coptic / greek mix that some people say is incorrect?...
    in that case, we would need to improve the english to make it grammatically correct (which is maybe what was missing in the original version - it became popular in a grammatically incorrect version, hence all the debates about it).

    i really like the fact that you say 'have mercy on us' instead of 'have mercy upon us' (how my ancestors used to speak about 400 years ago).
    i like it because my ancestors are dead, and singing in ancient english will not impress them!

    but if anyone can find another place in english (in the last 100 years) where anyone talked about 'the existent' then i will be happy. otherwise we need to work a bit harder on translating the greek concept of 'estin'. i wonder if anyone wants to suggest a better translation?
    the arabic 'ka-in'

    كا ئن)) is close, but i struggle to put that into english.


    and we need to say 'o you, who was born from the virgin', not 'o who was..' as that makes no sense at all in english.
    it would be even better to say 'o you who the virgin gave birth to' and you could fit that in to the tune quite well. we definitely don't say in english that someone is 'born of' his mother, but i think we used to a few hundred years ago.

    so do you think that we could help with the task of putting this into better english?
  • Daniel_Kyrillos
    I think a collective effort could be put to reconstruct the OB from the transliteration, and then use that to put it in GB if desired by churches. After that process a rewriting process for the English is much easier.
  • ophadeceophadece
    The hymn is not old Bohairic it is Sa'idic mixed with other dialects of Coptic on a smaller sense, hence it was a challenge for anyone to attempt to translate it, especially that Sa'idic as a dialect ceased to be in use in the early century teens and replaced gradually with Bohairic. Ⲁⲅⲓⲟⲥ ⲓⲥⲧⲏⲛ and a few other virginal hymns predominantly survived or were rediscovered in a dialect that is not Bohairic. Attempts to "bohairicise" it is fruitless in my opinion for many many reasons (but they did it by the way, in Albair Gamal's hymns app - I don't like it, needless to say). I see that we should not rid of something (in this case a mere dialect) just because we don't fully understand it. It is shameful for us to argue against trying a lot harder in the twenty first century, while in other churchly topics we argue for. That is not the only reason, but I believe that God will actually be happier and more pleased with my sticking to my roots regardless of my full understanding (indeed, how much do we fully understand the Holy Books?) God is not a factual entity, but He judges our motives and principles (and actions consequent to those). He would not say "it is OK if they change it" - I have very deep issues with the concept of "it is OK if so and so" as you rightly guessed it, I do hate relativism. Another worldly reason, we have Shakespeare poetry and we don't change that (admittedly it is changed for children as a prelude to understand the full extent and depth when older - I then ask, what are we?), even rap songs of I don't know maybe fresh prince or 50 cent (I guess it is clear that I am not well versed in rap music at all, except Linkin Park.. Hehe) when they use words like "da" and expressions like "them gals" or whatever.. These are not changed when re-edited or resung, are they?
    Please don't take this personally, I am not talking to any person of you per se. God bless you and pray for me and my family always please..
    Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    I don't think I have seen a manuscript that have an Arabic translation for Agios eisteen. Only M Farag book had a translation for it, and not really the most studied text. That being said, George Ghaly did a nice study about it and it was published, or atleast the resulted translation, was published in Albair's Khidmit Shamas.

    I assume, that is was one of the main reasons Abouna Shenouda did this new hymn. Its words are very basic and taken from elsewhere in our hymnology, despite all OB-related motives.
  • Daniel_Kyrillos
    @ophadece @minatasgeel ah, forgive me for the miscommunication- I meant a “reconstruction” of Agios Fee-etshop in GB coptic letters (as this is more accessible to the general congregation), which we could keep on the site as reference, as opposed to only the OB transliteration.
  • ophadeceophadece
    Thanks @Daniel_Kyrillos and no comment
    Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
  • mabsootamabsoota
    ophadece really does not like reconstruction. and i understand that.
    but maybe we could just put it in excellent english instead (the above english is not too bad)?
    i really like the hymn, but in the same way i can't stand bad english, ophadece can't stand bad coptic, i get that.
  • ophadeceophadece
    @mabsoota, I can't agree more. I think @minatasgeel and @Daniel_Kyrillos have already touched upon this but as you rightly say the translation in a wide variety of hymns and melodies is poor. I don't know about French, Italian or the other languages, but the big problem seems to me to be disrespect and ignorance of Coptic on the part of the translator who therefore chooses to translate from Arabic thereby ruining the meaning if not even due to the ignorance with formal Arabic expressions too. That's all of course besides not being fluent in English in the first place. In Kiahk alone I have seen shined, Persians (instead of knights as a translation of فرسان) and a widespread mention of Immanuel - these examples off the top of my head but there are many more..
    Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ Ⲡϭⲥ
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