Question about relationships

edited December 1969 in Personal Issues
I have a few questions about how relationships work for coptic egyptians. I am Christian and I met a girl at work who is coptic and we've become great friends, everything about her seems to be perfect in my eyes, but right when we first met each other, she pointed out that she is into the "coptic egyptian" dating. Which she said is to get to know someone and get married sort of deal. Anyways, I dont know exactly what that means... I know her parents are extremely strict, but I'm not sure about the whole thing as I am not egyptian or coptic. Honestly I wasn't grown up/raised going to church, I was actually complete opposite.. bad family situation, lived in a bad neighborhood, etc.. But I've always prayed to god & when I met her was actually the first time I've really been at church as she had invited me to come with her.  I'm not sure how else to say it.. but I feel like god sent me in her direction so that we can meet and she has also shown me a deeper way to god. I am really in love with her and I'm not sure what to do? because I don't think I'll ever be approved by anyone if I were to tell her, or marry her. I just feel completely shut down. And she is my only friend too, I just feel so lost & confused and I have noone else to talk to other than god. I always tell her everything but of course this I cannot.

Maybe some opinions on what I should do? Will god help me?

Comments

  • Dear happyjoy,
    Please use a capital g for the word God. Only He will be able to answer you. I don't think any body here will be able to give you any mature advice or information except the lady herself. You should just be prepared to find many cultural differences. If you love her and want to be with her for THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, be careful as histories tend to be repeated, then you should respect those and go along with such choices..
    Oujai
  • [quote author=happyjoy link=topic=14601.msg165837#msg165837 date=1378411242]
    I have a few questions about how relationships work for coptic egyptians. I am Christian and I met a girl at work who is coptic and we've become great friends, everything about her seems to be perfect in my eyes, but right when we first met each other, she pointed out that she is into the "coptic egyptian" dating. Which she said is to get to know someone and get married sort of deal. Anyways, I dont know exactly what that means... I know her parents are extremely strict, but I'm not sure about the whole thing as I am not egyptian or coptic. Honestly I wasn't grown up/raised going to church, I was actually complete opposite.. bad family situation, lived in a bad neighborhood, etc.. But I've always prayed to god & when I met her was actually the first time I've really been at church as she had invited me to come with her.  I'm not sure how else to say it.. but I feel like god sent me in her direction so that we can meet and she has also shown me a deeper way to god. I am really in love with her and I'm not sure what to do? because I don't think I'll ever be approved by anyone if I were to tell her, or marry her. I just feel completely shut down. And she is my only friend too, I just feel so lost & confused and I have noone else to talk to other than god. I always tell her everything but of course this I cannot.

    Maybe some opinions on what I should do? Will god help me?


    I'm a bit confused. You start by saying that you are a Christian, then at the end of your statement you say that "when I met her, it was the first time I've actually been at Church".

    These 2 statements are contradictions.

    It seems to me that you love this girl, yet you love the Church more now you've met her. Your love for the church depends on a girl, not on God.

    That's not the same thing. Would you still go to Church in the event that she marries someone else?

    We don't date, especially in the sense western people think of it. Sure, we can be friends with the opposite sex, but thats it.

    I hate relationships where someone becomes Christian , or even muslim, just out of marriage. That's awful. You are not being true to yourself, or her.

    Given what you've written, i'd say she's a devout Christian and Christianity is at her core, so i'm pretty sure her FoC won't even THINK of baptising you for marriage. We do not do that in Church.

    I'd say to you: forget this girl. Find someone raised in the same way as you, and leave her marry someone else who is Coptic and practicing.
  • My family is a Christian background (Mothers side & grandparents both sides). My father is not religious and kept us out of church, but I've always believed in God... That doesn't mean that I have been to church. I'm sorry but if you're saying I have to go to church in order to believe in God, that is just wrong of you.

    Me going to church also has nothing to do with her, I've been attending every week multiple churches with & without her. My statement was that she introduced me into church as I'm completely unfamiliar.

    Really and truly my thoughts on this would be that God put us in this situation for a reason, and that it shouldn't matter which church we are from, as long as we both love & believe in God... I just don't understand how it works, but thinking that God wants us to be from the same church in order for us to love is just outrageous.
  • If you really love her you would convert to orthodox and confess the true faith before men that it is the true faith. Maybe the church also requires you to accept the damnation of your family who does not convert or maybe they believe if you are truly orthodox you will save them

    But the Copts who go against all the priests and clergy and pope and call themselves more orthodox than others may very well be pharisees with no love to others but are wolves in sheeps clothing. Noone can know what is in their heart so one can not judge them but perhaps only orthodox can be saved despite the number of those who are lost but if that is so then I suppose all the orthodox are going to hell since they have not evangelised to the four ends of the earth and they also pretended to have miracles in their church and accuse others of lack of faith and damn them to hell. Even for having doubts about Jesus

    The function of a wolf is to desire to destroy the sheep who love their christ
    Orthodox people may very well only given God their mouth and not their heart as they desire all the worship songs that helped bring people to Christ to worship Him and desire to force us to sit there while they treat us like crap and send us away depressed and suicidal while we listen to their say their tasbehas in another language which the disabled can not endure many of the things they do. They do not feed the sheep but themselves

    The orthodox act blameless and pretend to be sheep and peaceful when they try to hinder people and strangers from knowing Christ in His church. They are afraid to preach the gospel and all their blood is in vain as they do not preach their gospel to all the ends of the earth and God did not choose orthodoxy as the only way it seems by their lack of success. They neither enter the kingdom nor do they allow those who are entering to go in
    They preach eternal damnation but they really hope to be saved after failing they have empty hopes. There may very well be no more chance to enter heaven as God is fair and He said blessed are the pure in heart for only they shall see God
    But there is no peace says my God for the wicked for they willfully reject the will of God for themselves

    All the christian faith is guilty of believing in eternal damnation to all those outside their creed so you can not really judge orthodox

    Now I do not know if the churches miracles are in fact true I judge nothing before the time until God will reveal the secrets of men
    They claim St Mary appeared noone could prove the miracle was wrong but I never had a miracle to confirm me in the true faith
    I often have dreams about Jesus and the end of the world but they are because I think of those things in the day. I saw in my dream St Mary confirming me in the orthodox faith and as I was disturbed in the dream that now I have responsibility to preach in my dream I realised it was not St Mary so God had pity on me as I would wake up and start preaching when He did not call me.
    I had another dream where St Mary was tormenting me in hell

    If you are orthodox then you must live it to the full or you cheated us and God and kept your affections to another Church or people
    Perhaps if she marries her you will turn away her heart from orthodoxy and the simplicity in Christ and she may put up with another gospel that she did not receive

    I am afraid your marriages are based on lust and not true love to others. I must love God more than all my family for all who desire to harm His kingdom are evil doers

    Now it could very well be the orthodox faith is the correct faith but St Paul says we can not judge those who are outside though he commanded we must all preach the gospel if we are able and are wise men. Pray the LORD of the harvest to send out laborers in His vineyard. Those who are prophets and wise men who will be killed and persecuted. Now Christ teaches not all orthodox will be saved and He said God is able to raise up children to Abraham from the stones. And He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy who are born not of the flesh nor of mens will but of the Holy Spirit.  The church is supposed to equip people to preach the gospel and not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul and make them wise men. Noone can preach unless he is sent and reached a state of infallability like Stephen the Martyr and noone is to preach who is busy with the affairs of this world but God will hold the blood of men on us who have not preached the gospel who can preach it "to him who knows to do good and does not do it to him it is sin"

    If you have not accepted Jesus in your heart and been born again you can not preach as you are not saved and you can not be protected by God according to the promise not a hair of your head shall be lost apart from My Will

    If she marries you and denies her orthodoxy and is ashamed of it she would have denied the faith and loved the world more than God
    but when has marriage ever lead to a true conversion
    perhaps people should not marry non orthodox as they never truly convert and proclaim their love for orthodoxy

    edit: How can someone as pretty as pope shenouda and pope kyrillos lie about miracles? or did they never confirm them. I  am saying this after seeing many pope shenouda pictures on facebook. But alas men are weak and easily deceived maybe they were both deceived or scared
    but then I see some pictures of st mary and I think it could be real but it is not good enough to make one believe in it easily





  • [quote author=mikeforjesus link=topic=14601.msg165841#msg165841 date=1378438842]
    If you really love her you would convert to orthodox and confess the true faith before men that it is the true faith. Maybe the church also requires you to accept the damnation of your family who does not convert or maybe they believe if you are truly orthodox you will save them


    I totally disagree with this. This is exactly what u should NOT do.

    If you love orthodoxy, become Orthodox. Not for her, not for anyone, but for you
  • If you understood my post then you would know I already agreed with you
    I said it to correct some of his feelings which were wrong it is still necessary to marry after being in the faith itself
    however when will you agree someone is orthodox?

    should anyone marry someone who does not like dealing with other people and love all? those who do not provide for their own are worse than unbelievers
    I never had any part in my sisters marriage to a former lebanese roman catholic but I am not going to make her decisions for her though I wanted to but 2 priests I contacted insisted I do not have to though my FOC said I can if I want to try to talk her out of it but he said we can not force others and no priest tried to stop it at all.I thought what right do I have to interfere in her life after never speaking to her and going to her room as I was busy with my life? and did fear approaching too much for my own reasons
    If she married an orthodox it would not be one of the extremists you propose anyway one who does not show love and tries to make the wife feel sinful for her choices. Marriage can not survive if one tries to change his wife rather than tolerate his wife for love of her. One must always show love to his wife and not cause her despair for she might be following her own convictions towards Christ
    I am getting old now and I still want to marry to please my parents and maybe I want kids but that is the main reason for marriage for me to have kids with someone I love. I do not know if I can find a compatible coptic girl. Do not try to make me single. I hope God will find me one for me and it seems I could marry whoever I want if the church does not even try to help me on God's path but insists I come to them and do not show me and make me accept their path. If I marry a coptic girl it will not be one who does not respect my feelings and who can not convert me to the right way and makes marriage unbearable and one who forces me to change my beliefs with no patience or someone who does not strengthen me in the true beliefs and remove every idea which does not please God according to the church. So if I can not find such a coptic girl I may marry outside. I do not mind them rejecting me because it is God's job to bring me the one He made for me so I will marry who accepts me in the time I can seek a wife
    I may drop marriage altogether and be a monk I guess you can just wait and see but that will be due to high expectations of monasticism to remove my fears of hell and make me in the right path after all this time if it is even possible
    how practical is leaving all for my salvations sake with the constant reminder that some may not be saved? and my dad used to curse the monks when I wanted to be one but now he says I can be one what if it is too late to save some people? what if I will not endure that life and I was not called to be one as I struggle with sexual desires and loneliness and run out of things to do as a monk and if I have many goals on earth that can only be achieved with others? like learning Arabic, learning many skills for the kingdoms sake?
    what if monasticism is boring and unproductive and fruitless?
    I expect to get sick and not be able to endure it and then I expect to die early without any conversion of myself.
    So God does not even warn people anymore? we have to be wise ourself or end up in eternal damnation just for not being perfectly orthodox and doing what we think we can?
  • dear happyjoy,
    i think it is very good that you have discovered the orthodox church and also you seem to have a deep interest in God.
    there are 2 separate things you have to do.
    1. (very important) pray to God and ask Him how you can know Him and His love better.
    He wants you to come close to Him, always repenting from your sin and thanking Him for His great love and beautiful creation.
    2. after this, you may find that God leads you to get to know this lady better as a friend, as a fiancee, or you may marry someone else later instead. value this lady and respect her as a friend and don't spend any efforts to decide how deep your friendship should go until you have got closer to God and start to live for God (be kind to others, pray, fast, be humble always, pray, read the Bible etc.)
    if it is God's will for you to later marry this lady, she will still be around after you have decided what to do with your relationship with God. concentrate on this first and the other things will become clear.

    as our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ said in the gospel;
    'seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these other things will be also given to you'.
  • [quote author=mabsoota link=topic=14601.msg165852#msg165852 date=1378482632]
    dear happyjoy,
    i think it is very good that you have discovered the orthodox church and also you seem to have a deep interest in God.
    there are 2 separate things you have to do.
    1. (very important) pray to God and ask Him how you can know Him and His love better.
    He wants you to come close to Him, always repenting from your sin and thanking Him for His great love and beautiful creation.
    2. after this, you may find that God leads you to get to know this lady better as a friend, as a fiancee, or you may marry someone else later instead. value this lady and respect her as a friend and don't spend any efforts to decide how deep your friendship should go until you have got closer to God and start to live for God (be kind to others, pray, fast, be humble always, pray, read the Bible etc.)
    if it is God's will for you to later marry this lady, she will still be around after you have decided what to do with your relationship with God. concentrate on this first and the other things will become clear.

    as our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ said in the gospel;
    'seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these other things will be also given to you'.



    AMEN!!! Well said mabsoota
  • My beloved brother in Christ

    I first of all i am so happy to see you partake with our great fellowship of Christian brothers and sisters in Christ.

    To be honest i was speaking with one of the beloved members in my church recently. One of them was Ougnaustous (Reader) Paul of Saint Mary's church from the diocess of Vancouver, Missasuaga and Western Canada. I was also privilaged and honored to speak with Epsaltos (Chanter) J Fahmy of Saint George Coptic Orthdoz church from the diocess of Missasuaga Vancouver and Western Canada Pentapolis.

    Anyways to cut to the chase. Chanter Paul aka "Farkha" agreed with me that as a coptic church it would be a wise decision if he were to marry an Egyptian girl from the coptic church.

    However Chanter J Fahmy seemed to not be hesitant with the idea of confining his life or marriage to a women that is not of a coptic Egyptian background. I must admit that i was surprised he admitted to this statement since he is the biggest fob and "agbar kafir" i have ever met in my life.

    But anyways aside from what they think, my opinion is way more important than theirs since i have been a chanter and reader for over 15 years, therefore make me smarter and wiser since they have been chanters for only 14 years. Just kidding!!

    From what i have seen, it seems that for any one to give up or sacrifice their religion, culture, or ethnic cultural rituals is a task that is compeling and one that is hard to give up. On the other hand from your situation it seems that you were never a religious person before. So either you may be interested and have the zeal to practice the rituals and dogmatic practices of a certain order or denomination. On the flip side of the coin you may find yourself in being in harmony with a creator or choosing a practice. In this case you will not find yourself to be a zealous christian holding steadfest to the teachings and rituals. Another point I want to bring up, is you may going through the process of being baptised in order to be consimated in the faith. However the underlying reason would be for the girl you want to marry or hook up with. So realistically speaking, it will be a hardel to continue the "Coptic Christian life".

    To be honest there is too much to be said, i recommend you speak to one of the priests. If you want feel free to inbox me and i can go into more detail and discuss more concerning this issue. Ofcourse it is great blessing if you are granted to be consumated and baptised in the coptic Orthdox Church. This church is rich with its teachings, fathers, rituals, practices,etc
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