General Funeral Prayer

edited December 1969 in Hymns Discussion
I've heard some conflicting information about this. Is the General Funeral Prayer supposed to be in the annual tune or the Pashcal tune? I've only known it to be Paschal tune but I just got informed that there was apparently a change in 2010 by the Holy Synod where they changed it to annual tune. Can anyone clarify?

Comments

  • This is indeed the case, the current tune of the General Funeral Prayer is the annual tune. The Pauline is read in the annual tune, the psalm and gospel are also read in the annual tune.
  • Regarding the tune for the hymns of the general funeral service, the official ruling from the Holy Synod is that it should be prayed as detailed in the Service of the Deacons (i.e., Pashal tune). The following is the direct response from HG Bishop Youssef.

    "The general funeral service will be chanted in the Pascha tune and NOT in the annual common tune."

    So in SUS, at least, it's paschal
  • [quote author=morcousw link=topic=13143.msg154330#msg154330 date=1333733549]
    Regarding the tune for the hymns of the general funeral service, the official ruling from the Holy Synod is that it should be prayed as detailed in the Service of the Deacons (i.e., Pashal tune).


    No, the Synod definitely made a ruling that it was to be prayed in the Annual tune. I haven't got my books to hand right now, but I'll quote Albair Gamal Mikhail the founder of the HCOC from a post on Coptichymns.net found here.

    [quote author=Albair]
    Actually, many people have asked this question. The original rite was to pray the General Funeral after the Nine Hour, which is 3 pm. So, it is natural to design it so that it is mournful. In the 14th or the 15th century, the church found that many people do not attend it since the evening service of that day becomes so long (General Funeral, 9th and 11th hours of Palm Sunday then 5 hours of the Monday eve), so they decided to pray it right after the liturgy of Palm Sunday. At some point they prayed it during communion but they fixed that after and prayed it after they finished communion. In all cases, they brought it with its original tune, which is mournful. 3 years ago, the pope announced that on Palm Sunday, people should leave the church feeling it is a Joyous event, and churches got confused what to do. Some churches prayed the General Funeral in the annual tune, others prayed it at 4 pm in the mournful tune. Just last year in 2008, the Holy Synod decided that the General Funeral would be prayed in the Annual Tune. I know that they should have announced that in El Keraza, but they didn't!
    This is the reason why people are still confused, because the Holy Synod assumed that each bishop will inform the churches he is responsible for, but not every one did. I will try to prepare a detailed booklet of the "new" General Funeral prayers and put it up for next year, so no one would be confused about it.
  • JG,
    The change is absolute, the change involves the churches which have more than one liturgy, or where the congregation is so large that deacons start praying the general funeral prayers during Communion.. however in our churches in the UK, there is only one priest in most places and people are careful not to cut the Communion hymns short, and hence sad tune should be the norm...
    Oujai
  • [quote author=ophadece link=topic=13143.msg154332#msg154332 date=1333734197]
    JG,
    The change is absolute, the change involves the churches which have more than one liturgy, or where the congregation is so large that deacons start praying the general funeral prayers during Communion.. however in our churches in the UK, there is only one priest in most places and people are careful not to cut the Communion hymns short, and hence sad tune should be the norm...
    Oujai



    Hey Ophadece!

    Could you provide me with a reference please?
  • JG, I wasn't aware of Mr. Albair's addendum, and the reference was my understanding of the new rule plus dialogues with people on tasbeha.org...
    Oujai
  • [quote author=ophadece link=topic=13143.msg154334#msg154334 date=1333734417]
    JG, I wasn't aware of Mr. Albair's addendum, and the reference was my understanding of the new rule plus dialogues with people on tasbeha.org...
    Oujai



    I only became aware of the Synod ruling when I got the 2nd edition of Albair's Deacon Service Book; we prayed the General Funeral Prayer in the annual tune last year for the first time.

    It is sad that such a major change in the rites wasn't published or made known directly from the Holy Synod, but indirectly through books such as the Deacon's Service Book.
  • I guess to me it's sad that the rites had to be changed in the first place..
    Oujai
  • I am confused. I live in SUS Dioceses. Do we pray it in annual or paschal tune?
  • IT IS prayed in the annual tune. Not in paschal tune for anything. How can we close the feast and do it in the paschal tune??? it doesnt make any sense for us to end the feast and then right away switch to the mournful tune.
  • Does that mean we no longer say ethveti on Palm Sunday?
  • [quote author=qawe link=topic=13143.msg154361#msg154361 date=1333764014]
    Does that mean we no longer say ethveti on Palm Sunday?


    Oh No!!! I have been waiting for the general funeral to sing ethveti!
  • [quote author=jydeacon link=topic=13105.msg154359#msg154359 date=1333757825]
    Posted on the Facebook page for the Service of the Deacons yesterday.

    "Regarding the tune for the hymns of the general funeral service, the official ruling from the Holy Synod is that it should be prayed as detailed in the Service of the Deacons (i.e., Pashal tune). The following is the direct response from HG Bishop Youssef.

    "The general funeral service will be chanted in the Pascha tune and NOT in the annual common tune."


    From JG's post in the other thread. I am officially confused now.
  • Sorry to add further confusion, but:
    What are we supposed to say in the "amen alleluia" at the end of the general funeral.
    Palm Sunday, normal, or passion week?
    Before this change it was always passion weeks
  • [quote author=JG link=topic=13143.msg154331#msg154331 date=1333734179]
    [quote author=morcousw link=topic=13143.msg154330#msg154330 date=1333733549]
    Regarding the tune for the hymns of the general funeral service, the official ruling from the Holy Synod is that it should be prayed as detailed in the Service of the Deacons (i.e., Pashal tune).


    No, the Synod definitely made a ruling that it was to be prayed in the Annual tune. I haven't got my books to hand right now, but I'll quote Albair Gamal Mikhail the founder of the HCOC from a post on Coptichymns.net found here.

    [quote author=Albair]
    Actually, many people have asked this question. The original rite was to pray the General Funeral after the Nine Hour, which is 3 pm. So, it is natural to design it so that it is mournful. In the 14th or the 15th century, the church found that many people do not attend it since the evening service of that day becomes so long (General Funeral, 9th and 11th hours of Palm Sunday then 5 hours of the Monday eve), so they decided to pray it right after the liturgy of Palm Sunday. At some point they prayed it during communion but they fixed that after and prayed it after they finished communion. In all cases, they brought it with its original tune, which is mournful. 3 years ago, the pope announced that on Palm Sunday, people should leave the church feeling it is a Joyous event, and churches got confused what to do. Some churches prayed the General Funeral in the annual tune, others prayed it at 4 pm in the mournful tune. Just last year in 2008, the Holy Synod decided that the General Funeral would be prayed in the Annual Tune. I know that they should have announced that in El Keraza, but they didn't!
    This is the reason why people are still confused, because the Holy Synod assumed that each bishop will inform the churches he is responsible for, but not every one did. I will try to prepare a detailed booklet of the "new" General Funeral prayers and put it up for next year, so no one would be confused about it.


    To be clear, I was just quoting directly what was posted in the Service of Deacons facebook page last year... if HGBY says pray it Paschal, then we will pray it Paschal - at least here in SUS...
  • [quote author=Copticandproud link=topic=13143.msg154365#msg154365 date=1333766677]
    [quote author=jydeacon link=topic=13105.msg154359#msg154359 date=1333757825]
    Posted on the Facebook page for the Service of the Deacons yesterday.

    "Regarding the tune for the hymns of the general funeral service, the official ruling from the Holy Synod is that it should be prayed as detailed in the Service of the Deacons (i.e., Pashal tune). The following is the direct response from HG Bishop Youssef.

    "The general funeral service will be chanted in the Pascha tune and NOT in the annual common tune."


    From JG's post in the other thread. I am officially confused now.


    You just quoted jydeacon not me.

    As far as I'm aware, the Holy Synod made a ruling that it should be prayed in the annual tune a couple of years ago.

    Whether this post on the facebook page that appeared yesterday is a new ruling I don't know. I highly doubt it though, especially as morcousw says it was also posted on the facebook page last year.

    To my mind, when the Holy Synod makes a ruling, it is to be followed as the official ruling within the Church. I suppose if a bishop says different for his diocese maybe that sticks for his diocese. But this confusion could have been avoided if the information was made known universally when the changes to the rite were made.


  • Actually technically the synod is above one bishop
  • [quote author=qawe link=topic=13143.msg154376#msg154376 date=1333776170]
    Sorry to add further confusion, but:
    What are we supposed to say in the "amen alleluia" at the end of the general funeral.
    Palm Sunday, normal, or passion week?
    Before this change it was always passion weeks


    Passion Week.
  • [quote author=JG link=topic=13143.msg154381#msg154381 date=1333785000]
    [quote author=Copticandproud link=topic=13143.msg154365#msg154365 date=1333766677]
    [quote author=jydeacon link=topic=13105.msg154359#msg154359 date=1333757825]
    Posted on the Facebook page for the Service of the Deacons yesterday.

    "Regarding the tune for the hymns of the general funeral service, the official ruling from the Holy Synod is that it should be prayed as detailed in the Service of the Deacons (i.e., Pashal tune). The following is the direct response from HG Bishop Youssef.

    "The general funeral service will be chanted in the Pascha tune and NOT in the annual common tune."


    From JG's post in the other thread. I am officially confused now.


    You just quoted jydeacon not me.



    My fault.

    I guess I am just going to wait and hope my priest prays it in paschal tune ;)
Sign In or Register to comment.